Anti Social Behaviour

Cannot turn on the Radio or read the papers without reference to ASB, without the O, yet!

In fairness, a lot of communites are under attack, by Gangs of Youths who seem to be untouchables as far as law and order is concerned.

Any suggestions on methods or actions that might bring this back under control?

Heard a debate on talkSport that got a 95% Poll result for the Singapore Solution! It seems that when local Yob is picked up, he, and it is generally a he, a doctor is called to the local Cop Shop, cameras are turned on, and if the local sargent is satisfied he is guilty, three lashes of the birch is given to the bare posterior!

And before it is said that it is barbaric, is it not barbaric that old people are living in fear all over the country tonight? And dont tell me that its not barbaric to witness some of the stuff that goes on in town centres every weekend!

Iinterested to hear the views here, and I am not some right wing nut, but I can apprecieate the chaos that happens when the word is out there that Kids are untouchable!:mad:

It's barbaric. There's no defense or justification for either corporal or capital punishment.

If Gov.ie really wants to deal with crime, there's a very simple three-step solution:

1. Decommission the existing jails and build new, tough ones.
2. Lock repeat offenders up, for longer periods. Lock the worst criminals up for the rest of their lives.
3. Reform the parole system back to it's original purpose: rewarding good behaviour.

adam

Thing about the "Singapore Solution" is it doesn't work! None of these countries that have corporal punishment have noticebly lower crime rates than those who don't, in fact many have much higher crime rates.
I would argue, yes you have to punish offenders but you also have to look at the reason why crime is increasingly becoming such a big problem in our society. I would argue a lot of this is down to the hegemony of the Thatcherite idea that there is "no such thing as society, only individuals and families". When this idea is bought, and boy has it been bought in Celtic Tiger Ireland, then its every man and woman for themselves and to hell with other people. If you can't get ahead by legitimate means then you're going to get ahead by illegitmate means or at least make life damned uncomfortable for those who you percieve to be better off. Youth grow up with no sense of community or belonging, no link to the past or older generations, so they in turn show no respect to these older generations. I spent the first ten years of my life in a council estate in Navan. Yes it was rough but it had a sense of community. Now you wouldn't go near the place. The small estate we moved to when I was ten was also a real community. In many ways it still is among the people who have been there for years. Today's housing estates, miles from any amenities, populated by commuters who don't have time to develope a community, who rarely see there kids or have time to bond with them are incubators of alienation. In a society such as this it is no wonder there is crime. The guy down the road is no longer someone you stand outside talking about gardening or football with, he's an identityless individual to be despised, jealous of or to look down on.
We need a society that attacks these ills, that builds communities not mass dormitories and we need a police force that is accountable to these communities, not divorced from them.

I agree that we should have modern professional jails. I don't know what the current ones like but most are very old buildings which can't be good.

Talk of reform is wishful thinking, Prison is for punishment!

Chain gangs & work farms would be possible solutions for non-violent criminals.

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Originally Posted by pete

Talk of reform is wishful thinking, Prison is for punishment!
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No point in punishing them if they come back out unreformed though.

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Chain gangs & work farms would be possible solutions for non-violent criminals

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Yeah that really eradicated crime in the US! :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by pete

Talk of reform is wishful thinking, Prison is for punishment!

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The punishment is supposed to be loss of liberty. Prisons should be about rehabilitation, training and drug treatment.

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Originally Posted by pete

Talk of reform is wishful thinking, Prison is for punishment!

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I agree that prison is for punishment but the actual lack of liberty is punsihment enough.

Surely you dont object to attempts to help inmates have more options available (than just going back to criminal activity) when they are released from prison?

The lack of liberty is most certainly not punishment enough, the complete failure of our current prison systems should be proof enough of that. One in four prisoners reoffends, usually because they've learned more about crime inside than they every learned outside. By breaking the law, criminals revoke many of their rights, and in my opinion these should include all but the most basic human rights. They should be educated yes, but by educators. They should be treated yes, but not with kid gloves.

Lock 'em up for longer periods and with less of the luxuries, and watch crime levels drop. It's a long term investment though, and our current government doesn't understand that concept. Like Republicans in the US, all they understand is the quick hit. They're the crack addicts of politics.

adam

I'd create a special unit of the Gardai, something along the lines of the SS (uniforms and all), give them a snappy name like 'the Death Squad', and let them whip the nations youth into shape :D ;) :D

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Originally Posted by jebus

I'd create a special unit of the Gardai, something along the lines of the SS (uniforms and all), give them a snappy name like 'the Death Squad', and let them whip the nations youth into shape

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Maybe we can both join now that we've lots of free weekends for training :(

Can we have acid tipped bullets?? :p

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Originally Posted by Lim till i die

Maybe we can both join now that we've lots of free weekends for training :(

Can we have acid tipped bullets?? :p

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Ah inflicting horrible pain on the nation's teenagers would be just the tonic for Limerick going bust

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Originally Posted by jebus

Ah inflicting horrible pain on the nation's teenagers would be just the tonic for Limerick going bust

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Is that not what Limerick FC have been doing all along? :confused: ;)

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Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

Is that not what Limerick FC have been doing all along? :confused: ;)

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One Nil to BohsPartisan :)

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Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

Is that not what Limerick FC have been doing all along? :confused: ;)

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Adults used to go to the games too :(

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Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

Is that not what Limerick FC have been doing all along? :confused: ;)

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But when we go bust we will ease their pain.

1:1 (Osarusan 87")

Back on-topic please, this is Current Affairs.

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I would argue, yes you have to punish offenders but you also have to look at the reason why crime is increasingly becoming such a big problem in our society. I would argue a lot of this is down to the hegemony of the Thatcherite idea that there is "no such thing as society, only individuals and families". When this idea is bought, and boy has it been bought in Celtic Tiger Ireland, then its every man and woman for themselves and to hell with other people. If you can't get ahead by legitimate means then you're going to get ahead by illegitmate means or at least make life damned uncomfortable for those who you percieve to be better off. Youth grow up with no sense of community or belonging, no link to the past or older generations, so they in turn show no respect to these older generations. I spent the first ten years of my life in a council estate in Navan. Yes it was rough but it had a sense of community. Now you wouldn't go near the place. The small estate we moved to when I was ten was also a real community. In many ways it still is among the people who have been there for years. Today's housing estates, miles from any amenities, populated by commuters who don't have time to develope a community, who rarely see there kids or have time to bond with them are incubators of alienation. In a society such as this it is no wonder there is crime. The guy down the road is no longer someone you stand outside talking about gardening or football with, he's an identityless individual to be despised, jealous of or to look down on.
We need a society that attacks these ills, that builds communities not mass dormitories and we need a police force that is accountable to these communities, not divorced from them.

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NEx time, you meet a gang round a corner late at night, save that thought, ask them to hold on a minute and listen....see how far you get.....the next time it happens, hold onto the thought and run away!!!!

Er that is a stupid arguement. I also said people need to be punished but that you won't eradicate crime until you tackle its causes.

i didnt put any arguement in place, Im just saying in a realistic situation, a good aul whipping by the guards or whoever would get you out of trouble, trying to reason with them like the approach over here ( or possibly by what you are getting at, telling them i empathise with you, you don't feel part of the community yadda yadda yadda ) " you have to love them, tough love" means fcuk all when confronted by it/situation, its the typical politician/judge ( those that make the law ) living in his nice house, in his nice estate, not using public transport, completely isolated from reality that comes up with these views/arguments.

I do, though, agree you have to tackle the problem deeper, the quick fix DOESN'T work in the long term, but it sure of hell works in the short term ;)

But who's trying to reason with them?