Premiership talent

Printable View

23/08/2006, 10:47 AM
bwagner

Premiership talent

Guys i think most would argee we need as many premiership players as possible.

Why do you's think we have no real up and coming prem players....
stokes dosent look to be able to get much of a change (even sunderland wudnt take him on loan)

Timlin ..same
Potter ... wolves and is a championship player.

Stevie Ireland and joey 'o B seem to be are only hope.

douglas , miller, flood, whelan, mc carthy, partrige, mc phail, thornton
gregg, o donnell, stack,mahon, maybury, kelly ,bruce ...the list goes on and on about ouor players dropping league

ex Man utd player tierney and wes hoolihan both played for The mighty BLACKPOOL ..wes come home son come on now its over .

What happened to stan's big granny rule hype...is has got no one bar liam larrence and he wont cap him
23/08/2006, 10:52 AM
Risteard

I'd prefer a strategy of going for the best footballers, wherever they play.
23/08/2006, 11:03 AM
gustavo

agree with Risteard it shouldnt matter where they play as long as they are good enough ie I would have liked to have seen Ronnie O Brien get a call up
23/08/2006, 11:09 AM
Risteard

Ya, he's a much better example of this policy than Gamble or Byrne imo.
23/08/2006, 11:46 AM
bwagner

yea i argee chaps but it is the top level. sayin that i would love to see ronnie get a run out, we have badly failed in the last 2 campaigns , we need new faces and a bold manager ...stan is a yes man and wont call up the likes of ronnie or gavin mahon
23/08/2006, 12:14 PM
youngirish

It's not all doom and gloom I reckon Timlin will get his chance this season (he played in all of Fulham's pre-season games, starting many) and could prove to be good enough.

Shane Long should also get a few games in the Premiership this season for Reading also and I wouldn't be surprised to see Stephen Quinn breaking into the Sheffield United team towards the end of the season.

Overall though it's difficult these days for any young player to progress through their Academy to the full Premiership team as managers are not willing to take risks developing such players (who are never anywhere near the finished article initially) due to the vast amounts of money involved.

IMO young players are better off playing in the Championship in their formulative years where they are more likely to get regular games allowing them to develop over time. Inevitably some of these young players will go on to play in the Premiership if they prove good enough. Robbie Keane, Andy Reid, Duff, Doyle, Finnan and Stephen Reid are all players who made their names in the lower disvisions before moving onto the Premiership. Currently we have some promising young players such as Chris Mc Cann, Kevin Foley, Owen Garvan and Shane Supple (amongst others) who will hopefully follow their example.
23/08/2006, 12:34 PM
tetsujin1979

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwagner

stokes dosent look to be able to get much of a change (even sunderland wudnt take him on loan)

Bit harsh there I reckon, he went for a trial, but he wasn't going to be guaranteed first team football, so he went back to Arsenal. Not much point in going out on loan if he isn't going to be playing at all.

Stephen Ireland is still relatively unproven, although what we have seen so far is exciting, Timlin hasn't even played in the Premiership yet, and you've written him off already?

We're not the only country who's players have had to drop divisions, Ryan Smith at Arsenal was the one to watch and now he's at Derby. John Welsh was captaining the Liverpool reserves, now he's at Hull. It happens.
23/08/2006, 12:44 PM
endabob1

The influx of foreign talen to the premiership has greatly reduced the places at top clubs for homegrown (Including irish) talent.
You can see the effect it had on the England side in the world cup, the supposed 'Stars' like Lampard, Terry, Ferdinand etc.. get found out against decent opposition.
It's doing the same to Wales and Ireland we will have more and more players not able to make the breakthrough at top half premership clubs so they drop own a division. Mark Yates is a great example, has played a few senior games at Spurs, signed a new deal and everything but he spent last season onloan at Colchester, did very well won promotion, now has gone back on loan to Hull. The simple reason is at the moment he's not going to get past Lennon or Routledge for a place on the right wing and as a supporting striker he has Keane & Defoe ahead of him and Spurs are one of the clubs looking to bring on young local (including Irish) talent!!
23/08/2006, 1:05 PM
gustavo

Irish talent is foreign talent too so they should just learn to compete with the rest of the foreign talent
23/08/2006, 1:12 PM
endabob1

Not really in the sense that most young Irish players get picked up at schoolboy level and therefore come through the English club system.
There are exceptions like Kevin Doyle but these are exceptions.

The foreign talent really refers to the European/African invasion which is now starting to penetrate the underage structures aswell. Arsenal have only produced Cole in the last 10 years from local schoolboy to first team but there are plenty of young 18/19 foreign players who have been brought in and developed, Fabergas, Flamini, etc....
23/08/2006, 1:23 PM
gustavo

Fabregas was brought in at 16 same time as a lot of Irish lads
23/08/2006, 1:43 PM
endabob1

I think that's my point, in the good old days clubs didn't scout Europe for the best 16/17/18 year olds. The system currently in place at clubs like Arsenal where players like Fabergas are coming in at such a young age that they are creating a situation where young British and Irish players can't get in the side. I agree to a degree that if the local lads were good enough then it wouldn't be an issue.
Simple example, as it stands it (using Arsenal) they have (I'm guessing here)50/50 European to British/Irish 17/18 year olds in a squad of 22. So where as 10 years ago 22 players get the benefit from top level coaching now only 11 benefit. What happens to the 11 players that 10 years ago would have been at the Arsenal accadamey but are no longer deemed worthy? They end up at Barnet or Leyton Orient where the coaching isn't as good. From an Irish kid's perspective is it a gamble worth taking to move to London for a youth contract with Barnet, probably not so they stay at home and hopefully get picked up in the LOI structure, or end up playing junior football.
I don't subscribe to the argument that if you're good enough you'll make it regardless scenario, without the benefit of top coaching players don't develop.
The FAI should (& this is pie in the sky stuff when talking about the FAI) have a proper accadamey set up which has players of 16/17 who are affiliated to LOI clubs but get coached in a proper 7 days a week professional accadamey set-up, like the FA did at Lilleshall in England. I think it would benefit the local game hugely and develop players capable of stepping up to perform at a higher level.
23/08/2006, 1:47 PM
eirebhoy

Quote:

Originally Posted by gustavo

Fabregas was brought in at 16 same time as a lot of Irish lads

They got Fabregas from Barca though.
23/08/2006, 1:50 PM
gustavo

still though he was on a schoolboy contract
23/08/2006, 1:54 PM
endabob1

He was only 16/17 when he came over alright and whatever scam was done I don't think they had to pay anything for him.
Not a bad piece of business
23/08/2006, 2:31 PM
tetsujin1979

Quote:

Originally Posted by endabob1

He was only 16/17 when he came over alright and whatever scam was done I don't think they had to pay anything for him.
Not a bad piece of business

Something like a 16 year old can sign a professional contract in England, but in Spain you have to wait until you're 17, it could be 17 and 18, but AFAIR that's what they did. Pretty sure United pulled the same deal with Pique
23/08/2006, 2:33 PM
endabob1

Quote:

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Something like a 16 year old can sign a professional contract in England, but in Spain you have to wait until you're 17, it could be 17 and 18, but AFAIR that's what they did. Pretty sure United pulled the same deal with Pique

Learning something new every day here:D
23/08/2006, 3:04 PM
DmanDmythDledge

Quote:

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Something like a 16 year old can sign a professional contract in England, but in Spain you have to wait until you're 17, it could be 17 and 18, but AFAIR that's what they did. Pretty sure United pulled the same deal with Pique

A fee was paid by Man Utd to Barca for Pique.
23/08/2006, 7:51 PM
theworm2345

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwagner

Guys i think most would argee we need as many premiership players as possible.

Fine with me, a front line of Keane, Connolly, Doyle, Hunt, and Long doesnt seem that bad, it would also mean though that Elliott and Morrison would be gone, which wouldnt be good, at most other positions they are mostly EPL players