eL Clubs and Tax Breaks

I said it when Shels were in trouble a few months back and i have written two pieces for FourFiveOne fanzine on the topic aswell.

Should eL Clubs gets tax breaks on parr with horse racing and greyhounds in this country? That is the question.

Brian Lennox has mentioned it at least 5-6 times in programme notes and in fans forums and interviews since he has taken over at Cork City. He mentions it here again.

No eL will ever make money, and if they do, its doubtful they will be able to sustain it. It is now becoming very clear that clubs need to have they house in order but is there any assistance that the government should provide.

What do you think?

Players already get tax breaks and I'm not sure what other taxes eL clubs pay, apart from a small ammount of VAT on food and merchandise.

The pension rebate type thing is fine but there should extra tax credits for professonal sports people in this country.

The fact the horse and dog racing (they are animals) are subsidised to the tune of 50m a year says it all about priorities in this country. I'm the success of the brown horse or black dog is great for kids to look at but surely all it does is encourage them to become gambles. Proper sports on the other hand might encourage kids to play a sport as try to emulate their heros.

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Originally Posted by pete

The pension rebate type thing is fine but there should extra tax credits for professonal sports people in this country.

The fact the horse and dog racing (they are animals) are subsidised to the tune of 50m a year says it all about priorities in this country. I'm the success of the brown horse or black dog is great for kids to look at but surely all it does is encourage them to become gambles. Proper sports on the other hand might encourage kids to play a sport as try to emulate their heros.

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The government actually upped the subsidy to about 80 million a year recently which is scandalous in my opinion. Part of the preoblem is the government which has no interest in football. Another part is in the league though. You can't ask for more money from the government when there are no financial controls over the current money being spent.

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Originally Posted by Student Mullet

You can't ask for more money from the government when there are no financial controls over the current money being spent.

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Just asking this as i dont actually know. Are there financial controls in place for the dogs and horses? Its not like a bottomless pit or anything is it?

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Originally Posted by Student Mullet

Players already get tax breaks and I'm not sure what other taxes eL clubs pay, apart from a small ammount of VAT on food and merchandise.

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We pay 17.5% on gate receipts straight to HM Customs and Revenue.


Barstewards!!!!!

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Originally Posted by A face

Just asking this as i dont actually know. Are there financial controls in place for the dogs and horses? Its not like a bottomless pit or anything is it?

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I haven't looked into it in enough detail to answer that but their accounts are published on (I think) the Dept. of Sport website. The government subsidy is shown as income in the accounts and is not linked to any particular projects from what I can see.

The point is that the Dogs and Horses seem to run their financial affairs properly. I don't think the eL is in a position to be asking for something similar.

What the FAI could push for is tax breaks for companies/individuals who invest in football here.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

What the FAI could push for is tax breaks for companies/individuals who invest in football here.

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Does anyone know if the FAI have ever pushed for something like that ??

To be fair to the Government they announced 5 million capital money for the league last year and my sources tell me that they're going to announce something similar soon for this year. In the absence of a well run league or association I think that that's the best that they can do.

But if they gave 5 mill in tax breaks, how much overall ivestment would that bring it?

(PS, can understand totally why they wouldn't do it, just putting it forward as an idea....)

Cork City chairman urges tax breaks for footballers


CORK CITY FC chairman Brian Lennox last night called for football players to get tax breaks after the top club was landed with a €160,000 Revenue demand and a winding-up petition. The Revenue Commissioners served the High Court winding-up petition on the Eircom League leaders for unpaid PAYE and PRSI contributions.

The Turners Cross club has failed to pass on the full amount of tax and social insurance contributions deducted from the wages of players and staff. Last night Mr Lennox vowed the bill would be paid in full today but said the crisis underlined the money problems faced by all League of Ireland clubs.


Read more at www.examiner.ie

Been saying this for many a long year now, and its something the FAI should be pushing for once they get their feet under the table, however as somebody said above its hard to ask for tax breaks when the vast majority of clubs are flouting the existing regulations.

A simple additional tax credit for professional sports people would be something which would make a huge difference to the EL however its not that simple.

The government would be concerned that it could be a costly measure when applied to rugby players for example, or golfers, or even Premiership millionaires moving here for the exemption similar to the artists tax breaks.

Another drawback would be that eL players would not be long coming asking for more money given that the clubs no longer pay as much tax for them.

Perhaps a way round it would be tax credits for part time sportspeople leaving the full time pros as they are, as these are the ones who really hurt clubs, i.e. they are working elsewhere and using up all their tax credits on that employments, so clubs get stuck paying 40% tax on everything making even a modest takehome cost almost double to the club.

It would hugely help the EL by allowing clubs to keep investing their income in quality players without giving (in theory anyway) a huge chunk of the cash (often raised by blood, sweat and tears of part time volunteers) to the taxman. Surely there is something wrong with people busting their butts selling lottos, draws and the like to give the money to the government!!!

TG

EL clubs will I think be giving breaks only when the revenue are sure we are all doing the right thing .

There's a number of things they could do, whether they should do any of them is another matter.

- Corporation Tax isn't an issue cos hardly any clubs make enough profit in the first place to be paying tax on it. You don't pay tax if you make a loss.

- Tax-free earning status, a bit like what they did for artists and musicians under Haughey. I think they already have something like this in place where a player can claim back their tax at the end of their career provided they've played here continuously for a certain number of years. Main drawback for me is that it's not deduction of players' PAYE that's the problem, it's the club deducting it but not passing it on to the Revenue. Also, given that inflated wage demands by players are at least part of the reason we're all in this mess (combined with clubs' willingness / stupidity to accede to those demands), it makes me less supportive of starting off by giving them more.

- Zero-rate footballers for employers' PRSI, providing the players are still given credit for the relevant "contributions" as regards social welfare entitlements in the event of injury, end of career, etc. Roughly speaking, that ought to knock about 12% off every club's wage bill. Main drawback would be how to stop the tax break ending up with the players, a bit like the way the tax break for first-time buyers ended up being tagged onto house prices. Maybe link the tax concession to investment in facilities so that players can't set their beady eyes on it. Or a wage cap would be another way of ring-fencing the money.

- I like Dodge's idea about tax incentives for investors. It'd address one of the main weaknesses of the League, that apart from the odd dreamer, philanthropist (or property speculator, eh, WAR? ;) :D ) no-one's willing to invest in the league. Already, all sorts of donations can be written off against tax - charities, even forestry if you don't mind - so why not football?

One major problem of any of the above is how do you do anything without putting Derry at a disadvantage? Do you just write it off as a sad fact of life for them, pending the return of the fourth green field (like that's ever gonna happen) or do you allow them to register as a company in the south while trading in the north? That's one that'd require a bit of imagination by the two sets of Revenue.

This is cobblers.

What divine right does a footballer have to pay less tax on their salary? A tax break simply means the clubs would be paying out the same money to players instead of Revenue.

If they want taxs breaks they can offset it against their mortgage, their pension like the rest of us and they get their best 5 years back at the end of their careers on top of that.

Clubs dont pay any other tax, there's no vat on gate reciepts, and in general vat on other things can all be claimed back because clubs are involved in sport.

Cutting to the chase, if we mean government funding, obviously EUR80m a year would go a long way but get over yourselves, its not going to happen in the short term, and if delaney or his successor continue to be balls less then donet expect it any time in the next 10 years.

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Originally Posted by thomas

What divine right does a footballer have to pay less tax on their salary? A tax break simply means the clubs would be paying out the same money to players instead of Revenue.

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"Tax-free earning status, like what they did for artists and musicians under Haughey" - Why do you disagree with this is the obvious question i suppose, what divine right does an artists or musicians have to pay less tax

** Just a question on the artists/musicians ... do they have to wait a number of year to avail of the break or do they get it annually?

Thomas, the reason people have been suggesting this over the years is because they have been looking at other codes who get far more breaks than the eL. Some would argue that the eL contributes more, to a larger spectrum of people in the community, with what seems like at times, little or no assistance in return from the government.

Why should the league looking from more assistance be a bad thing, given what it is already getting (sweet fa in the scheme of things)?

It is hard to see EL clubs getting any kind of preferential tax treatment when most of them seem to so poorly run eg in the last year Rovers going bust, 2 of the top clubs hit with winding up orders for tax due.

One thing the clubs could do themselves is to stop agreeing to pay wages net with players.

This means the cost to the clubs can vary depending on whether a player is married or has another employment

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Originally Posted by paudie

This means the cost to the clubs can vary depending on whether a player is married or has another employment

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A common sense approach ... cant see this being too popular !! :p

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Originally Posted by Student Mullet

The point is that the Dogs and Horses seem to run their financial affairs properly.

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It's a mite easier to run your financial affairs properly when government throws money at you. This is the same circular argument made by those who consider that the GAA is supernaturally gifted when it comes to financial management and fund-raising prowess, as opposed simply to being well-in.