European Success - Long Term Prospects

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23/06/2006, 1:51 PM
cavan_fan

European Success - Long Term Prospects

Apologies if this has been said before.

Given today's UEFA draws, and wishing good luck to all involved, I wonder what the prospects for EL clubs in Europe over the long term is.

I can see particularly the Champions League as a huget threat/opportunity for the League. It seems clear that if any EL club were to get through to the group stages they would have a huge one off bonanza which could lead to a Rosenberg situation where their dominance becomes a virtuous cycle (from their point of view). I suspect it is possible that one group stage qualification could be p*ssed away by an inpet board and ridiculous spending but if it were used to buy players such as Mark Kennedy/Arjan De Zeeuw (to use random examples) I suspect that domestic competition would die off quite quickly.

Even the argument that the rising tide would lift all boats doesnt work as the main benefit for other clubs would be higher gate receipts against the new super club. Given the size of most grounds this would be a fairly small benefit.

The other way of looking at this of course (and admittedly this is from an International team rather than club perspective) is that what Ireland needs is at least one club of the Rosenberg/Club Brugge level who can regulalry provide 3/4 players to the national team.

It appears the main block to this happeneing is the fact that there is no club with any real dominance at present and so e.g. Shelbourne were not able to follow up their excellent run a few years ago with 3-4 consecutive attempts.

If I was running an EL club I would think now is the time for a gamble. The first club to put in a 3-4 year dominance may be able to get the experience for a group stage qualification. If this is utilised correctly they could make it very difficult for others to overtake.

Is this possible & if so who would it be?
23/06/2006, 2:41 PM
Ronnie

All things being equal our clubs doing better in Europe is good for football.

But all things are not equal unfortunately. We do not have the population base for 10-12 full time teams and no culture of crowds attending matches that do not have something riding on it (similar problem exists in GAA and Rugby). We have 4 clubs who appear to have the resources at the moment to compete - Shels, Derry, Cork and Drogs. However should some more clubs get to that level, eg Bohs, Pats, Rovers then all 7 can't have a good season at the same time, so to sustain it you need continual success and even that doesen't guarantee sustainability.

European success would provide untold riches especially if it happens to a club that can reinvest in the team and not pay off long standing debts, they could really dominate the league, but the league, it could be argued might really suffer.

The arguement about players playing for the international team can be looked at in many ways. Last season Shels had 4 players with senior Irish caps, Crowe, Byrne, Moore and Fleming, but that did not imapct on their gate at all. In many cases a returning international would be regarded as a career going the wrong direction by the majority of the armchair supporters. The perception of the armchair fans is still that if you were any good you'd be in England and not here and so when someone returns from England they are still considered as having not made it, despite the fact that they may be only 20 years of age!

On your final point on what club has the real long term potential it probably is Cork City. Although this has been the case for many many years it has never happened. Fifteen years ago everyone though Derry City would be the club but the consistent mass support at the Brandywell in the late 80's will hardly be seen again. Of course historically Rovers would be the club but the days of 30k attending el games in Dublin is long over.
23/06/2006, 3:42 PM
A face

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie

But all things are not equal unfortunately. We do not have the population base for 10-12 full time teams .

We actually do but the Irish public are being force fed English football every which way they turn.
23/06/2006, 3:58 PM
el punter

Quote:

Originally Posted by A face

We actually do but the Irish public are being force fed English football every which way they turn.

I think 'force fed' is over the top. There's a huge appetite for English Premiership football here. It is being chosen over domestic football by our population.
23/06/2006, 6:34 PM
BohDiddley

I think force fed is fair. If you deprive someone of real food and bombard him with Pot Noodle, then he will inevitably eat Pot Noodle.*
For example, try today's Irish Independent sports coverage. Today is Friday. It is match night in Ireland. Where are the previews?
Other media, including the national public service broadcaster, for whom we pay a licence fee precisely to counteract such imbalances, provide cursory notices, much as they might advertise a parish fete.

(* Disclaimer: I know, at present the Pot Noodle is displaced by world cuisine, but my point stands!).

Anyhow, I think this 'success in Europe' debate is pie in the sky. If it happens, well and good. But the league needs first to attain much more modest and achievable goals.
23/06/2006, 7:26 PM
pete

While individuals clubs have improved a lot both on the pitch and off we are still very badly served by the central organisation of the league.

European success is a medium/long term process as need to get teams seeded in the 1st qualifying rounds otherwise will always be hoping not to get nasty draws. We not far away from seeding status.

I don't think much hope of CL group stages unless someone invests massive sums of money.

Winning in europe even in qualifiers offers great publicity as often live on tv.

Was interesting to see today that massive spreads in newspapers listing all EPL & SPL fixtures for next season and minimal league or european draw previews.
23/06/2006, 11:35 PM
A face

Quote:

Originally Posted by el punter

I think 'force fed' is over the top.

I though it was a remarkable show of restraint on my part by describing it as �force fed� .... there is absolutely no other way to look at it, it is NOT choice when there is nothing to choose from. Force fed, while it is a diluted description to a large degree, it definitely is appropriate in describing what is on offer to the Irish public.
24/06/2006, 12:00 AM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

Was interesting to see today that massive spreads in newspapers listing all EPL & SPL fixtures for next season and minimal league or european draw previews.

Definitely. I don't think "force fed" is over the top at all. It's all very well 20-somethings saying they support English football of their own volition, but ultimately it derives (99% of the time) from so much media exposure to English football as a child. Ask a group of kids in First Class who they support - it'll be an English team all the time. They're not old enough to understand why they support a team. The conclusion then would be taht they're effectively force-fed.
24/06/2006, 12:08 AM
el punter

I'm not force fed the EPL. I'm interested in my local game and I find out about it myself and ignore media content about the English game by and large.

It comes down to a 'change the media, change the people' scenario. The point made about us paying licence fees is well founded. The national media should take a greater responsible in publicising national games and pay less heed to what goes on across the water...but it'll take some style of a revolution to take Man Utd and Liverpool off the back pages here.
24/06/2006, 10:43 AM
A face

Quote:

Originally Posted by el punter

I'm not force fed the EPL. I'm interested in my local game and I find out about it myself and ignore media content about the English game by and large.

The general public believe everything they read though. Thats the problem.

Quote:

It comes down to a 'change the media, change the people' scenario. The point made about us paying licence fees is well founded. The national media should take a greater responsible in publicising national games and pay less heed to what goes on across the water...but it'll take some style of a revolution to take Man Utd and Liverpool off the back pages here.

Thats exactly what it needs.
24/06/2006, 11:27 AM
pete

As another eL fans has said to me its too easy to be an EPL supporter. Loads of media coverage & Sky Sports will tell you what to think about clubs and players. In a week you could hold your own in any EPL conversation.
24/06/2006, 12:01 PM
Sniffer

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

As another eL fans has said to me its too easy to be an EPL supporter. Loads of media coverage & Sky Sports will tell you what to think about clubs and players. In a week you could hold your own in any EPL conversation.

Don't agree, I'm a relative newcomer to the joys of eL footbal, and am consistently amazed by the depth of knowledge amongst fans of the league about their clubs and the league in general. i agree with the Sky Sports comment; was having a haircut the other day and it was on in the barbers... constant inane repetitive nonsense which reminded me of a Boomtown Rats song, Nothing Happened Today. Yet, they continue with their 24 hour broadcast of nothing, it's a form of brainwashing.
24/06/2006, 3:29 PM
pineapple stu

So you do agree then...?

Interesting song choice!
24/06/2006, 4:36 PM
A face

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniffer

Don't agree, I'm a relative newcomer to the joys of eL footbal, and am consistently amazed by the depth of knowledge amongst fans of the league about their clubs and the league in general. i agree with the Sky Sports comment; was having a haircut the other day and it was on in the barbers... constant inane repetitive nonsense which reminded me of a Boomtown Rats song, Nothing Happened Today. Yet, they continue with their 24 hour broadcast of nothing, it's a form of brainwashing.

That why whenever to talk to an EPL fan all you get is their mumbling verbal vomit, the poor b�stards know no better.