Euro 2008/future

I am looking forward to the world cup because I am a massive
football fan but it is quite difficult to be really excited when we
are not participating

I am looking ahead to the European Championship qualifiers starting in
September. I do agree at the moment that things do not look too rosy but
As mentioned before I think the most important thing for a team like Ireland is
To work together as a team and get our spirit back. While I agree that we need more than that – look at teams like Greece and Switzerland and their success. I actually fancy the Swiss to do really well at the word cup. I believe once we have that spirit back then we can build. We still have some world class stars – given, keane and duff
And some very good ‘potentials’. I can understand why Staunton didn’t want many
End of season friendlies as the palyers would be tired and disinterested but in one way it would have been nice to see some more players.

Regarding our group – I think it would be good if the Czechs and Germans had prolonged stays in the world cup – teams that do really well in world cups often have
A lull at the beginning gof their next qualifying campaign. I also qould question the Czechs – I believe they will reach their sell by date at this world cup and can see a few players retiring from the scene. Germany are rebuilding and have some good young players but are beatable. I am not sure about Slovakia – they did well in their group and may be a team to fear. I really do not rate Wales at all and think we can hold them off. The most important thing for me is to make landsdowne/croker a fortress and win our homes – if we do that I believe we WILL qualify.

In my opinion the defense is pretty much decided ( assuming carr comes back ) will
Be given, carr, o’brien, dunne, finnan – yes some would say its average I would say unspectacular but that doesn’t mean a bad defence I think that could work ok

Midfield worries me more at the moment – Duff, S Reid and in my opinion A McGeady should be def starters against Holland/Germany. I do not know who will play in central midfield with reid – perhaps have a look at garvan – (Ireland/0’brien)
I still think Andy Reid is a class player if he can lose about 3 stone – he looked unbelieveably overweight for a footballer against chile – up front keane/doyle/Morrison

I think we will squeeze through

I think we will finish fourth in this group just ahead of Cyprus and we won't even be in the shake up going into the last couple of rounds.

I'm happy with the group. We won't be expected to beat the Czech's which is always a good thing. After the world cup I think we'd match them on a player by player basis with the probably retirements of Nedved, Smicer, Poborsky, Galasek and Koller.

The great thing about football is things can change so quickly.

By the end of the year we could of possibly got a few good results and one or 2 of these young players might have emerged as quality players and that will gel the whole team

Cyprus Away 05..............they Fukin Humiliated Us For 85 Mins (even With Are Senior Players That Are Now Retired...yeah Right We Will Be In The Mix ...no Chance ...deafeats In Germany, Czech Republic And Slovakia Are An Absolute Certainty, Scabby Draw At Home To Slovakia And Two Home Defeats To The Germans And Baros And His Crew...leaving Us 4th Seeded For Wc 2010 And The Spiral Continues

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Originally Posted by bwagner

Cyprus Away 05..............they Fukin Humiliated Us For 85 Mins

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and if we didn't score after 6 minutes we would have been all over them. It's the way it worked under Kerr. :) Switzerland also had it tough against Cyprus. They only scored in the 88th minute to beat them 1-0 in Switzerland. The game in Cyprus was tough too and it was 1-1 after 70 minutes. They gave Wales a really tough time and I remember watching the highlights of that game. But for the Welsh keeper Cyprus would have won 3 or 4 nil but it ended 1-0. They also gave the Faroes their biggest home defeat since 2001 recently.

There were 2 posts here recently, one saying that in the late 80's and early 90's we had a team full of winners, and another saying that our problem isn't so much lack of ability but that there are too few leaders.

I'd tend to agree, especially regarding leadership. I think it's unrealistic in the modern premiership to expect a full team of Irish to come from MUFC or Chelsea or wherever and many of the players we do have are playing for clubs for whom success is staying up or sneaking a UEFA spot so having regular achievers isn't likely.

But I think we're lacking in natural winners / achievers. For example, Andy O'Brien, who I rate actually, is seen more often in club football with his hands on his hips having had the ball just go in off his shins for a deflection, whereas McGrath or Moran would have deflected it wide (accidentally, but you get my jist). Richard Dunne, again who I rate, is prone to carelessness and outright bad luck that his predecessors would never have suffered. Steven Reid, fine player that he is, depends on confidence whereas Andy Townsend was cocky as ****.

Some guys are naturally cut out to succeed and we don't have enough of them.

I think the team is lacking stature: both moral and physical.

I watched the Ireland vs England Feb '95 goal on google video yesterday (I was showing my American boss the footage of the England fans!) and noted just how assertive and confident John Sheridan was from box to box making the goal. Who do we have that can do that now? I also noticed just how much bigger our players were then, with no Liam Miller midgets attempting to dominate midfield.

One or two injuries to players of quality and we're fooked in this group, if dunne, duff, or keane were to be injured we don't have quality to back these up, oh to have Englands resources i.e sending defoe home!! but more than anything this group lack the character of there predecessors, these will be required in abundance when your up against it in Prague and Bratislavia.. Oh wait hold on a minute we have John O'shea enforcing our midfield dominance...Nuff said..4th place at a canter me thinks, Czech to top followed by Germany, Slovakia and a dog fight with wales for Fourth.. how
our pedigree has slipped under Kerr

ah eire you cant defend that performance man serioulsy.
wales are muck and have 16,17 and 19 year olds in there team and the swiss are the new eire in the early 90's...lucky as hell

We're in big trouble. Look at it this way. It would be no surprise to me if we got a 'heroic' draw in Germany and seemingly a great start, like we always do. But when push comes to shove we do not have the players or the ability to get the right results in the return games at home. We can't take the game to teams at home. This has been proven over the last few campaigns where we have thrown away qualification in our HOME games. We're just not technically good enough. The better teams just come to Dublin and shut up shop. Any team that has a go seems to score.

We're now facing a campaign with our worst squad since Mick McCarthy took over from Charlton. We have no central midfield. Our defence is leaky. Our key players Duff & Keane consistantly under perform. Our promising players such as McGeady, Andy Reid, Stephen Ireland, Joey O'Brien etc can't hold down regular places, or are played out-of-position at their clubs. Don't even mention our strikers - a disaster. Looking at us now, we're in terrible shape. As an earlier poster said, we're basically depending on good fortune for this campaign - Hoping the Germans/Czechs will have an extended, but unsuccessful WC, that the Czechs will have a lot of retirements, that the games in Croke Park will give us an extra 20%.............I think it's madness that some are predicting qualification. How can we qualify with club utility players and championship standard footballers?

Or you could look at it another way. In Given, Finnan, Dunne, Duff and Keane we have 5 of the best players in their position in the premiership. Steven Reid is now fulfilling his promise too, being linked with Man U and Spurs shows how much he has come on this season. That's 6 players that I feel are as good as the Czech Republic's 6 best players they'll bring to Lansdowne after the World cup.

We have a few weak links. Kavanagh and Harte will have to fill in in their respective positions for the time being. I think Kav-Reid could be an excellent partnership. O'Brien has never put a foot wrong for Ireland and Kevin Doyle, while yet to prove himself at the top level, certainly looks capable of partnering Keane up front.

It could be worse, we could be the Czech's with 4 of their best players retiring after the WC. :)

Consider the following. In 2002 WC the 1st team was

Given

Carr Breen Staunton Harte

Kelly Holland Kinsella Kilbane

Duff Keane

IMO The team below would beat that team.

Given

Carr Dunne O'Brien Finnan

McGeady S.Reid O'Shea Duff

Doyle Keane.

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Originally Posted by colster

Consider the following. In 2002 WC the 1st team was

Given

Carr Breen Staunton Harte

Kelly Holland Kinsella Kilbane

Duff Keane

IMO The team below would beat that team.

Given

Carr Dunne O'Brien Finnan

McGeady S.Reid O'Shea Duff

Doyle Keane.

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If we are comparing the qualification team, then it is against a midfield of Holland & Keane. In which case the "new" midfield would never get hold of the ball. The "old" backs would be well protected & their forwards well supported.

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Originally Posted by Paddy Garcia

If we are comparing the qualification team, then it is against a midfield of Holland & Keane. In which case the "new" midfield would never get hold of the ball. The "old" backs would be well protected & their forwards well supported.

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Thats true, but still the team that played in the WC 2002 did very well and had the Spanish on the ropes and people say it was a missed opportunity.
Some of the comments here and in other threads suggest that we would have been an embarrassment at this WC. I don't think we would have.
We have a decent back 5, very good wingers, good strikers. We need to sort out central midfield. I think the Reid/O'Shea partnership is useful to start with. I know O'Shea is still inconsistent but I believe that if we give him time then he will grow into a very good holding midfielder. Remember not so long ago people would not have had Richard Dunne anywhere near the side but he has turned his career right around and has matured into an excellent centre half. I think O'Shea could do the same and should be given the chance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by colster

. We need to sort out central midfield. I think the Reid/O'Shea partnership is useful to start with. I know O'Shea is still inconsistent but I believe that if we give him time then he will grow into a very good holding midfielder. Remember not so long ago people would not have had Richard Dunne anywhere near the side but he has turned his career right around and has matured into an excellent centre half. I think O'Shea could do the same and should be given the chance.

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Dunne was consistently showing form at club level and not transferring it to the national squad. O'shea isn't showing form full stop.
Having watched "the Da Vinci code " last night and seeing what the mad monk 'Silas' did to himself, I'd be delighted to see the same thing happen to John O'Shea after every game. It would be the ultimate pleasure/pain scenario!

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

Dunne was consistently showing form at club level and not transferring it to the national squad. O'shea isn't showing form full stop.
Having watched "the Da Vinci code " last night and seeing what the mad monk 'Silas' did to himself, I'd be delighted to see the same thing happen to John O'Shea after every game. It would be the ultimate pleasure/pain scenario!

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Dunne used to have a problem with his concentration. He would invariably good for at least one lapse. He was never that consistent. He had some excellent games e.g. against Holland and Portugal. Since Keegan gave him his warnings he has been the model of consistency.

I think O'Shea has suffered from being moved all over the place by United. He is not a left back but has done OK there. I can only remember one bad mistake he's made for Ireland and that was when he played center half. I think O'Shea could be a good CM if he just plays it simple, has a bit more concentration and is more aggressive. I think he can learn that and could prove a very useful stop gap until one of Ireland, OBrien, Garvan can step up to the mark.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by colster

I think O'Shea has suffered from being moved all over the place by United. He is not a left back but has done OK there. I can only remember one bad mistake he's made for Ireland and that was when he played center half. I think O'Shea could be a good CM if he just plays it simple, has a bit more concentration and is more aggressive. I think he can learn that and could prove a very useful stop gap until one of Ireland, OBrien, Garvan can step up to the mark.

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Without trying to offend you but does what you wrote above not seem a bit silly? In my mind what you're saying is this:
"If he was completely different he'd be great!"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by colster

I think O'Shea has suffered from being moved all over the place by United. He is not a left back but has done OK there. I can only remember one bad mistake he's made for Ireland and that was when he played center half.

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I think it's accepted that O'Shea doesn't make many mistakes, but he does very little to win the game and often goes missing for long periods of the game. Playing at centre half and centre midfield you would expect him to take the game by the scruff of the neck and drive the team forward. But he doesn't, which leads to the criticism

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

Without trying to offend you but does what you wrote above not seem a bit silly? In my mind what you're saying is this:
"If he was completely different he'd be great!"

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How so? He can learn to concentrate more, he can learn to play it simple and he can learn to be a bit more aggressive/determined. He is still quite new to CM. These are things he can pick up with games, the things that come with experience. I think he has the raw material to be a good defensive CM. He needs some direction and fine tuning but if he applies himself he could do that.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

I think it's accepted that O'Shea doesn't make many mistakes, but he does very little to win the game and often goes missing for long periods of the game. Playing at centre half and centre midfield you would expect him to take the game by the scruff of the neck and drive the team forward. But he doesn't, which leads to the criticism

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For starters I'd settle for someone who breaks up the play, protects the back four and keeps it simple so others can go out and win the game for us. If he can do that then I'll be happy.