My view of Eircom League Supporters

Printable View

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

16/05/2006, 4:48 PM
Mad Moose

My view of Eircom League Supporters

Before I get into this I post this particular thread safe in the knowledge that i'm likely to come in for a certain amount of critisism for doing so but as somebody who for a number of years has followed League of Ireland football these are but a few observations I wish to make. I no longer follow League of Ireland football as such and have only attended a couple of games in the last number of seasons. For the last few years I have gone back to grass roots level (underage football) and Junior football (Mayo League) and I find this a much more pleasant environment to enjoy the game I love and have always loved.

It was after a recent brief encounter with a few Cork City fans in Dublin that I decided my mind was made up on the league. Its unfortunate that I have to mention a club or clubs in relation to this post because this isn't down to an individual club but my experience over the last few seasons has been focused on one particular club,. (not Cork City)

In any case on this particular weekend I was on a weekend training course in Dublin and after a late finish on the saturday night I sat down to a pint with a mate from Drogheda who happened to be a football enthusiast and a regular at Drogheda Utd. We were both keen to see the Setanta Cup final but the station wasn't available so we sat and chatted football. A couple of Cork City fans walked in and one in particular bantered away about the game. The particular Cork City fan we were talking to was very engaging in relation to the game. My mate laughed and joked about Drogheda Utd winning the game.Two Cork City fans who were present heard the conversation and started on my mate about how much of a supporter he was and if he was why he wasn't at the game. I explained to my mate that he didn't need to explain himself and to leave it at that and not to start an argument. They continued to talk down to him in relation to been 'some supporter' in not attending the game. That was the last of the conversation in relation to football and we moved in to join our group in the lobby.

I'm well aware of how poorly supported the League is by the powers that be in this case the FAI and I understand the pride thats involved with supporting your own club and wanting whats best for a league. This becomes that wee bit more defensive when even as a supporter your used to the game been so downtrodden and the work thats required to keep a club and a league afloat. It was however this attitude as taken by these particular supporters that has become, or has perhaps always been, indicitive of Senior football in Ireland. It was like a snobbery of sorts, A 'theirs them and us' attitude. Who are they to talk about football when they dont even attend and get behind the team. The reasons didn't seem to matter. I'm not entirely sure where this comes from and I've a feeling that its an attitude in general associated with the game that believe it or not I've seen in coaching U-10's. It stems from the game in England and how the game developed there. I dont have a problem with rivalry and that, its healthy to a degree and it sustains a club, even can unite and energise a club. It becomes a community thing. Returning to play junior league football has been refreshing. You might get a ribbing from the touchline but you take it with a smile or a grimace and get on with it.

Its with great interest of late I've watched developments at Finn Harps, a club I attended as a supporter for a few seasons. I have always made my voice heard on the wrongs of the club and naturally those associated with the club get defensive and silence me. Thats understandable and fair enough. Its how its done that causes the greatest concern. I've been described as everything from 'deranged' and 'insane' to other unrepeatable profanities. Only today I log on to their forum to hear discussions on 'Racism at Finn Park' to incidents of 'throwing drumsticks at opposing players (Derry City's Sean Hargan), bottle throwing (At Shamrock Rovers keeper a few weeks back), and spitting. I'm not sure if this is standard in League of Ireland football but all I can say is thank god I dont go there anymore and by the looks of it few bother to do so. The manager has critisised the fans recently in the papers for been abusive to his players. In fact whether its been on a public forum or newspapers the press in relation to the club is pretty poor. I've always said and it will always be said that this club looks down its nose at clubs in the county as it is the only Senior Club in Donegal. How those other 'inferior' clubs must chuckle and laugh at the condition the club now finds itself in. No doubt I had pleasant times at Finn Park but these are far outweighed by the negative press consistently emerging from the club. This has been reflected in the numbers who have turned their back on the club, no doubt a few may return with a good cup run but its unlikely to have lasting impact. Certain Harps supporters will come on here and diffuse my arguments by claiming I'm 'obcessed' with the club or to attack me personnally with little references to 'Insanity'. After all I'm not the issue here, if a club will air its consistently dirty laundry in public they dont need me to do it.

All in all this leaves a very sour taste. I found their was always a certain few people (Not many, this is league of Ireland after all) who fronted themselves as a voice of a club and if you didn't conform to their thinking then you weren't welcome. This was particularly the case in rural Donegal and I am not the first to mention that. No doubt in the future I'll dip in and out of games but for now I'm happy watching junior league football week in week out.

Brendan
16/05/2006, 5:06 PM
harry crumb

Don't know that much about the goings on at Finn Harps, but I know that for years things weren't done right.

Is there not a supporters trust or something at the minute trying to get into a new stadium.
16/05/2006, 5:08 PM
Krstic

Junior football's a better standard than Finn Harps after all Brendan:p
16/05/2006, 5:19 PM
Mad Moose

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krstic

Junior football's a better standard than Finn Harps after all Brendan:p

While you might say that in jest if better standard equates to a much more pleasant standard then I agree. In relation to the facts I have posted in relation to Finn Harps you only need to look at their forum. I know spittin, bottle throwing or throwing drumsticks are pretty paltry if your to consider a Milan derby game but their hugely significant when they occur at games in a small local community. The club may try to paper up the cracks but the cracks are too large and people now see through it. Again I'm not obcessed but I took an awful lot of abuse for speaking out against the club. I was threatened (indirectly) with been barred from the club.I've made the point on their forum (they deleted it) that if they bar any more people from the ground the games will be held behind closed doors. I describe the club currently as a 'little experiment in anti-social behaviour)

Harry I know little or nothing about the ground development.Seemingly its going ahead with a huge value been placed on the current Finn Park for commercial development. A stadium development is all lovely but it needs support and a club actually going somewhere.

Brendan
16/05/2006, 6:31 PM
OneRedArmy

Brendan whilst I agree with a lot of what you say (in relation to a minority of supporters of many clubs) the comparison to junior football is interesting as I would argue some of its supporters are even more elitist.

There is a active element in the junior ranks that generally ignore and rubbish the Eircom League standard and see themselves primarily as feeders for English football for the underage ranks (rather than feeding EL as the next natural progression). You'll also find them referring to players who "could have made it over the water" if it wasn't for their love of a few scoops/pure unadulterated laziness/some other excuse. The fact that they couldn't make it in the highest standard in the country never enters the equation.

If you need proof of this look at the factions within the FAI. The junior reps are renowned for doing their own thing and voting against the EL reps.
16/05/2006, 8:52 PM
TonyD

Good points OneRedArmy, I'd be interested to hear Harpsbears reaction. I remember a few years ago when Portmarnock had a decent cup run one of their players voicing the opinion inb the papers that his team were as good as most of the teams in the league, the only difference being fitness. Strangely Portmaarnock didn't win the cup that year. In relation to Harpsbear, perhaps he's letting his own personal issues with his club colour his view of the league as whole.
16/05/2006, 10:20 PM
harpskid

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harpsbear

In I've always said and it will always be said that this club looks down its nose at clubs in the county as it is the only Senior Club in Donegal. How those other 'inferior' clubs must chuckle and laugh at the condition the club now finds itself in.

:D

A wiser scolar than me once said 'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing' - how right he was!

Finn Harps does not look down its nose at clubs in the county. Where is there evidence of this?

Finn Harps actually has a good relationship with both the Donegal League and teh Ulster Senior League and indeed also the Inishowen and Donegal Youth Leagues.

I suggest you take time out and ask teh clubs their feelings on that. Think you'll be surprised by the outcome.

However, I'm not going to get drawn into another argument on a public forum with someone for whom I have no time and consider their opinion to be worthless, as I have more important issues to worry about - like my college exams.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harpsbear

I've been described as everything from 'deranged' and 'insane' to other unrepeatable profanities

Sure didn't you tell one Harps supporter recently that ye were going mad? :p
17/05/2006, 12:15 AM
Student Mullet

Quote:

Two Cork City fans who were present heard the conversation and started on my mate about how much of a supporter he was and if he was why he wasn't at the game. I explained to my mate that he didn't need to explain himself and to leave it at that and not to start an argument. They continued to talk down to him in relation to been 'some supporter' in not attending the game.

I wouldn't worry too much about that. According to a lot of Cork supporters you can attend games regularly and still not be a propper supporter. I think that it has something to do with how 'ambitious' they percieve your club to be.
17/05/2006, 8:17 AM
Mad Moose

Quote:

Originally Posted by harpskid

:D
However, I'm not going to get drawn into another argument on a public forum with someone for whom I have no time and consider their opinion to be worthless, as I have more important issues to worry about - like my college exams.

Something of that 'attitude' I spoke of in there.

Quote:

Sure didn't you tell one Harps supporter recently that ye were going mad? :p

Who would that be Chris. If I have done it was with tongue firmly in cheek.Something to do with establishing the motive for their been in touch in the first place. No fear of that happening Chris.
17/05/2006, 8:38 AM
Strabane_Harp

the obsession continues :rolleyes:

you would need to take this fella with about the same size of pinch of salt as you will find in the atlantic. Id even say the incident with the cork fans has been imagined in order to turn round and attack harps.

Harps fans treat this person with the respect he deserves, none.
17/05/2006, 8:39 AM
Mad Moose

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Brendan whilst I agree with a lot of what you say (in relation to a minority of supporters of many clubs) the comparison to junior football is interesting as I would argue some of its supporters are even more elitist.

There is a active element in the junior ranks that generally ignore and rubbish the Eircom League standard and see themselves primarily as feeders for English football for the underage ranks (rather than feeding EL as the next natural progression). You'll also find them referring to players who "could have made it over the water" if it wasn't for their love of a few scoops/pure unadulterated laziness/some other excuse. The fact that they couldn't make it in the highest standard in the country never enters the equation.

If you need proof of this look at the factions within the FAI. The junior reps are renowned for doing their own thing and voting against the EL reps.

Thats not the situation I'm aware of in terms of my involvement with Junior football. I think you have generalised on the 'feeders for English football' view. I've not come across that. I wouldn't rubbish the standard of football in the EL . I call into question the support however in the Eircom League. Just take for example the incidents I've highlighted in relation to behaviour of supporters at Finn Harps. Bottle throwing, spitting, racist chants (according to a director of the club these chants were directed at a director), drumstick throwing (hitting a Derry City player) and abusive language. Of course Harps supporters dont want these issues highlighted, they dont want them discussed but am I wrong to regard this kind of behaviour unacceptable and a blotch on the Senior football copybook. All this anti-social behaviour is heavily publicised and of course its all in the name of the club.Only last season I was at Finn Park and saw the head steward been attacked (he was hit in the face). Am I wrong to decide I wouldn't turn up at Finn Park ever again to see this kind of behaviour and would I expect a family to do the same. No I wouldn't. Their aren't personal issues. I've been abused at every opportunity when I rightfully raise these issues and since my views are 'worthless' and I dont conform to the views or perceptions the club would like painted of them then my views are removed or deleted. Can somebody correct me if I'm wrong in relation to these recent events at Finn Park.

In relation to junior football take a look at the junior football forum and seek those views out that you percieve them to be.I dont believe them to be.Only recently I attended the biggest game in Castlebar for years in the FAI Junior Cup Semi-Final. The game and support was conducted in the manner the game was supposed to be and it was a pleasure to be there. Having seen both EL for a number of years and junior football I can see the very obvious difference. Its just an opinion and of course its people of different experiences will have different opinions.

Brendan
17/05/2006, 8:51 AM
Strabane_Harp

to clear up the so called racist incident occurred at a game last season, when 3 drunken louts started shouting abuse at our own nigerian defender, none of these 3 were in any harps colours and a director went to speak to them about the racist abuse and drinking in the ground and was assaulted by them. The 3 were then ejected from the stadium and havent been seen since.

As for the drumstick incident i was in liverpool so wasnt there to see that.

The bottle last week was thrown by a local eejit who was immediately reported to the board and barred for life. he was not as previously claimed in some quarters a member of any Finn Harps supporters club. He is apparently known locally as a bit of a headcase.

and Brendan had you been at games this year you might have seen quite a few families are attending, the numbers are as low as they were in other years in the first division when we havent done well. If we start climbing the table they will come back, if the weather is nice they may well come back. We still have one of the highest attendances in the first division
17/05/2006, 9:07 AM
harpskid

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harpsbear

Thats not the situation I'm aware of in terms of my involvement with Junior football. I think you have generalised on the 'feeders for English football' view.

Haven't you just generalised with all your above? :rolleyes:

"Hello pot...meet Mr Kettle!!"

You have highlighted isolated incidents:

1 - a drumstick was thrown at a Derry player last year and the person who threw it was barred.

2 - a racist comment was directed towards one of our own players and this chap was barred.

3 - the head of security was hit and this man received a life-time ban as well

4 - the budweiser bottle was thrown by a local hooligan who was also promptly banned

THis is not the norm for supporters of Finn Harps to go around like football hooligans at every given opportunity, and when incidents like the above happen they are dealt with - if you went to teh games you would know this.

Quote:

Something of that 'attitude' I spoke of in there.

I do apologise for studying last evening when clearly I should have been further disecting your pontifications.

Your posts yesterday were deleted on the Harps forum. I deleted them. Why? Because they had now't to do with the thread you posted on and because I received several PMs from users about your postings.

You are not wanted on our forum. Comprende? You can see that other users who have issues can come on and argue their point and they are not banned. These people still come to games and class themselves as Harps fans. You don't, so no-one cares what you have to say!
17/05/2006, 9:14 AM
harpskid

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyD

perhaps he's letting his own personal issues with his club colour his view of the league as whole.

Elementary my dear Watson! :ball:
17/05/2006, 9:22 AM
Dodge

I think its gas that everry single LOI club has at least one fan who absolutely despises the club they follow. Goes to most/all games (certainly at home) but constantly complains and wants EVERYBODY out
17/05/2006, 9:30 AM
joey B

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

I think its gas that everry single LOI club has at least one fan who absolutely despises the club they follow. Goes to most/all games (certainly at home) but constantly complains and wants EVERYBODY out

Just to clear something up here Dodge the person who started this thread is NOT a supporter of Finn Harps.
17/05/2006, 9:38 AM
NY Hoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Brendan whilst I agree with a lot of what you say (in relation to a minority of supporters of many clubs) the comparison to junior football is interesting as I would argue some of its supporters are even more elitist.

There is a active element in the junior ranks that generally ignore and rubbish the Eircom League standard and see themselves primarily as feeders for English football for the underage ranks (rather than feeding EL as the next natural progression). You'll also find them referring to players who "could have made it over the water" if it wasn't for their love of a few scoops/pure unadulterated laziness/some other excuse. The fact that they couldn't make it in the highest standard in the country never enters the equation.

If you need proof of this look at the factions within the FAI. The junior reps are renowned for doing their own thing and voting against the EL reps.

Couldnt agree more. A lot of the junior clubs, not all of them, do not and will not recognise the eircom league. Their players are just barstoolers who kick a ball.

Dont really want to to get into the Harps issue but would banning gargle from the ground stem the incidents your man is on about?

KOH
17/05/2006, 9:45 AM
Hecko

The serious point in all this is that eL is cometing with other sports and other levels of football for fans - that's reality. In that context, it is a real worry that certain things happen at eL games taht don't happen elsewhere. whatever you think about the game itself, the atmosphere at rugby and GAA is seen by many as being better because you can enjoy the game and the few pints before/after with supporters from all sides without any danger of hassle (there may be exceptions but they're pretty rare).

I'm a regularly CCFC fan for 15 years and while before the incidents were rare but soemtimes serious, there is now a constant low level amount of idiots at a lot of el clubs (us included) who make it hard to enjoy a game and a bit of crack. Don't get me wrong, a lot of clubs are making a big effort (such as Cork's family enclosure to get in parents with young kids) and I'll never stop giong myself, but when "fans" are spitting at refs, linesmen and opposing players or throwng bricks/bottles- and this has happened at most grounds I've been at some stage in the past few years- then they're is something wrong.

A lot of fans downplay it, but it is one of the biggest factors holding the league back IMO. And it can be fixed as well. There are plenty of ties where there is a wonderful atmosphere - I would say between Derry and most clubs is generally recognised as the most good natured, but I've enjoyed great hospitality from Bohs and Pats over the years too.

Sorry for the rant
17/05/2006, 9:55 AM
Strabane_Harp

Drink is banned from Finn Park, but its always possible to smuggle to smuggle in a few bevvies. But the club cant really stop people drinkin before the game. 99.99% of Harps games pass without the slightest incident
17/05/2006, 10:00 AM
pete

A lot of eL fans are fairly young so get very "emotional" about issues.

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page