Child sex scandal in Dublin

As some of you may know today a report was published on child abuse by Catholic priests in Dublin. As a devout Catholic i thought i'd bring this up before anybody else did. Now the first thing to remember is that given allt he Pirests in Dublin this is a tiny minority-and is in no representative of all clergy. We're talking 2 abusive priests in Dublin every year. Having said that this is 2 a year to many. As Pope John Paul the Great said there is no place in the church for those who wish to harm children.

The church should hold a open equiry let poeple see what goes on-no cover ups, no cover up claims. It should be fully investigated and those who are found guilty of hurting children in anyway should be brought to justice. It's not the church-it;s certain people in the church, hurting anyone let alone a child is against the teachings of the Pope, the Bible and the bliefs of the Roman Catholic faith. These people are a disgrace-they have attacked the Catholic church by harming reputation. The way to restore the trust (that some people have lost) in the Church is for the church to let the Gardai/government do their job, help the people these "priests" hurt and re-iterate that the Catholic church never has a never will codone hurting anybody.

Burn them at the stake!
The church has systematically abused this state for years.

Liam as a fellow Catholic I may as well pick the openings you've left in your post. You say the church has never condoned hurting anyone but that's not true. You only need to look at the Crusades. The church in Ireland has had plenty of opportunity over the last near century to let the relevant authorities deal with clerical abuse but instead chose to cover up. They now have little or no choice anyway. I'm not sure what report you're referring to exactly. I do respect the current Archbishop of the Dublin diocese a lot more than the previous one and do hope that he will handle any such cases in a proper manner.

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Originally Posted by Peadar

The church has systematically abused this state for years.

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I don't agree with you.
Look at all the benifits the Catholic church has brought to Ireland.

Anyway it's not a debate about religious vs secular state-simply a Catholic higlighting that the church is totalyl against this behaviour and the people's actions are representative of no one but themselves; before someone makes a post using the report as justification for the destruction of Catholicism in Ireland.

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Originally Posted by liam88

I don't agree with you.
Look at all the benifits the Catholic church has brought to Ireland.

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Come on then Liam old son, enlighten us as to the nature of those "benefits". You can't make such a sweeping statement without attempting to qualify it...

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Originally Posted by liam88

Anyway it's not a debate about religious vs secular state-simply a Catholic higlighting that the church is totalyl against this behaviour and the people's actions are representative of no one but themselves; before someone makes a post using the report as justification for the destruction of Catholicism in Ireland.

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Liam, the Church doesn't need your PR as much as it needs an internal communications strategy and action plan to spread this message amongst the frontline practitioners, i.e. the priests themselves. Despite your obviously good intentions I'm afraid your words smack rather of shutting the stable door long after the horse has fecked off. Suggest you take the above posts to hol.ie instead. ;)

:ball: PP

While I don't doubt that the catholic church finds this kind of behaviour unacceptable, possibly even disgusting like the rest of us, there's zero doubt in my mind that the church, at every level, has waged an organised campign to hide and obfuscate this behaviour up until very, very recently. Which is equally disgusting, and deserves punishment that still isn't being doled out. The people responsible should be ashamed of themselves, and more importantly should be in jail. I think the amount of people involved would amount to a significant percentage; and I can see the cries of "I was just following orders yer honour" already.

And of course the problem with letting the Gardaí and Government do their job is that the church has explicitly gone out of it's way to prevent the Gardaí and Government from doing their job, by shifting priests out of the relevant juristiction, hiding and destroying evidence, etc. Sauce for the goose...

adam

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Originally Posted by dahamsta

While I don't doubt that the catholic church finds this kind of behaviour unacceptable, possibly even disgusting like the rest of us, there's zero doubt in my mind that the church, at every level, has waged an organised campign to hide and obfuscate this behaviour up until very, very recently. Which is equally disgusting, and deserves punishment that still isn't being doled out. The people responsible should be ashamed of themselves, and more importantly should be in jail. I think the amount of people involved would amount to a significant percentage; and I can see the cries of "I was just following orders yer honour" already.

And of course the problem with letting the Gardaí and Government do their job is that the church has explicitly gone out of it's way to prevent the Gardaí and Government from doing their job, by shifting priests out of the relevant juristiction, hiding and destroying evidence, etc. Sauce for the goose...

adam

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I agree with wat you say there except I think you made a generalisation with your 'every level' comment. I know plenty of clergy who are as disgusted as you or I.

I think the problem runs deeper in our society than just in the church though. Up untill recently it was rare for any paedophile to be brought to justice, or even public attention. The silence on the issue from everyone involved, including the church, the schools, the guards and the hospitals was such that a lot of people didn't even know what paedophelia was up untill about 20 years ago.

The root of the problem was in the medical profession in my opinion. The experts tought that paedophelia was an odd illness that could be cured with therapy. They also tought that the child would grow up without any harm done to them. They were wrong on both counts and that's the root of what let the problem fester for as long as it did.

I renounced my faith in the Catholic Church years ago because of revelations like this.I Agree that it is a minority of evil B@STARDS! that have caused the real hurt.but it is cover-ups at the highest level in the church in this country
and for all we know at the highest level in the Vatican that turned me off the church for life.

The bitter irony is, you can see why the church covered it up. The church obviously adopted a holier than thou moral approach and also feared the damage of its reputation and trust with its followers being shaken. Now however, the effect has been double due to its deception. To make matters worse Cardinal O'Connell was not a man equipped to lead the church here during the times that these revelations came to the fore. Archbishop Desmond is a lot more of a humane, compassionate and down to earth person by comparison. No doubt the church is utterly shaken here and you only need to take a quick look around for the empty seats on a Sunday at mass compared to a decade ago. People have lost their trust and faith and you can hardly blame them. I hope church, state and the people can draw a line under all that has happened and has learned some sore lessons that will prevent a repeat of such atrocities. While the church bears the brunt of the blame, the state and its insitutions and even the general Irish public were complicit in one way or another to covering things up. Bald Student does have a point, there was a certain degree of ignorance too, but surely anyone knew it was wrong from both a moral religious stand point and a common sense one.

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Originally Posted by Poor Student

. I hope church, state and the people can draw a line under all that has happened and has learned some sore lessons that will prevent a repeat of such atrocities.

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Too little too late IMO:mad:

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Originally Posted by Bald Student

I think you made a generalisation with your 'every level' comment. I know plenty of clergy who are as disgusted as you or I.

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Saying there was a cover-up at every level is not the same as saying that every priest, bishop, etc, was involved. "At every level" is a pretty common phrase, I'm surprised you'd jump to that conclusion.

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I think the problem runs deeper in our society than just in the church though.

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Sure it does. However the catholic church was at the heart of it, just like they were at the heart of everything until my generation. (Or possibly even my son's generation, since my mother suffered the ignorance of the catholic church when she was married, and when she had me; because she, a protestant, had the GALL to want to marry a catholic).

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The experts tought that paedophelia was an odd illness that could be cured with therapy. They also tought that the child would grow up without any harm done to them.

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I can honestly say that that's the first time I've heard that assertion. And, assuming it was a response to my post, it has zero bearing on the primary point I made: The church covered it up. Everything else is moot: they covered it up, and they knew damned well they were doing it.

It's like they were trying to demonstrate the opposite of christianity by playing opposites. They certainly demonstrated evil, and how to inflict pain; how to hurt people. Somebody should check their foreheads for the mark of the beast.

Sorry, but organised religion is not for me. From here all I see is secretive organisations that generally sit on pots of cash and hurt people. I think I'm probably better off on my tod.

adam

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Originally Posted by Bald Student

I know plenty of clergy who are as disgusted as you or I.

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Where were they speaking out when all the abuse was going on? Not every priest knew it was going on, but there must have been a lot who had an inclining and could've gone public.

On the issue in general, I have no respect for the way the Catholic Church is handling this issue. The constant drip of information out of the Dublin enquiry just shows they are still more concerned with PR than with dealing with the issues. Every week there's some kind of leak, this can only be being done to break the story down into smaller parts, to negate the impact of the full report if/when published.

The Catholic Church also refuses to report all allegations to the civil authorities mean that there is every chance abuse is still going on and still being covered up by them. They refuse to implement stuff recommended in their own reports.

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Originally Posted by dahamsta

Sorry, but organised religion is not for me. From here all I see is secretive organisations that generally sit on pots of cash and hurt people. I think I'm probably better off on my tod.

adam

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My Sentiments exactly. The CC is one of the Richest Organisations in the world(FACT)and one of the most Corrupt(IMO)

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Originally Posted by Bald Student

The root of the problem was in the medical profession in my opinion. The experts tought that paedophelia was an odd illness that could be cured with therapy. They also tought that the child would grow up without any harm done to them. They were wrong on both counts and that's the root of what let the problem fester for as long as it did.

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Of course, its the doctors fault. :rolleyes: Thats a ridiculous leap to make in all fairness.

As for the culture of silence inherrent in Irish society could that not have been in no small part due to the churches stranglehold on life in the country??? It's only now when peopl have been liberated from theocracy and dogmatism that the actions of that evil, corrupt "church" are coming to light

As a Christian, I'm glad to see that half-assed depiction of my faith failing miserably. What with the cover-ups in child sex cases, their reluctance to step into the late twentieth century, let alone the twenty-first century (how can they still say contraception is wrong??), and their continued dislike for homosexuals, and other minorities (what ever happened to Jesus's teaching of love everyone regardless??) I'm surprised its taking this long for that shame of a church to fall flat on it's face. I've read the New Testament, and all I ever hear from the Catholic Church is a twisted, profit grabbing version of what Jesus was actually trying to teach.

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Originally Posted by jebus

I've read the New Testament, and all I ever hear from the Catholic Church is a twisted, profit grabbing version of what Jesus was actually trying to teach.

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The Old Testament is far more entertaining man :p

Now their was a God who knew how to get things done :D

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Originally Posted by Lim till i die

The Old Testament is far more entertaining man :p

Now their was a God who knew how to get things done :D

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Yeah but one of us has to pray to the more compasionate one for some decent results against Cobh this year

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Originally Posted by jebus

Yeah but one of us has to pray to the more compasionate one for some decent results against Cobh this year

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Well, I've been praying to the vengeful guy to smite them so either way we're looking good :p

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Originally Posted by liam88

As some of you may know today a report was published on child abuse by Catholic priests in Dublin. As a devout Catholic i thought i'd bring this up before anybody else did. Now the first thing to remember is that given allt he Pirests in Dublin this is a tiny minority-and is in no representative of all clergy. We're talking 2 abusive priests in Dublin every year. Having said that this is 2 a year to many. As Pope John Paul the Great said there is no place in the church for those who wish to harm children.

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I agree with you there. 100 odd priests in 66 years, that’s 1 and a bit a year - obviously 1 and a bit too many but it’s probably a similar number to what you’d find in teaching or medicine or social services or whatever. It’s the church’s inability to respond to the problem, and respond openly, that's the big issue. You can unfortunately see why the Church covered it up, because it would do so much harm, and also why individual priests didn’t speak out, because they’d be harming the Church - what was needed was direction from the top and unfortunately the Vatican has been completely unwilling to deal with the issue. In fairness though hasn’t the new Pope recently been trying to change that (despite years of being unwilling to)? I guess all this isn't surprising, afterall it’s only been recently that our own governments have been willing to be more responsive and open (washing their dirty linen in public), as always it’ll take the church a while to embrace such change.

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Originally Posted by Hither green

it’s probably a similar number to what you’d find in teaching or medicine or social services or whatever.

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I'm sorry but you're going to have to back up that statement. Wouldn't mind a reference for only 100 priests either.