All-Ireland Co-operation

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14/02/2006, 3:28 PM
paul_oshea

All-Ireland Co-operation

With all the talk of intelligence sharing/policing sharing, tourism co-operation on an island basis, and infrastrucural and grants from the republic to the north, phone companies ( tmobile nad 02 ) not charging customers in the republic going north and the the north to south in the case of tmobile, are we seeing the moves toward a united IRELAND?!?!

A nation once again...:D

but seriouslly is it indirectly happening by greater co-operation between all, that eventually people realise its economically more viable and if the "mentally" changes, then it is the most obvious logical conclusion that one can come to?!?! I mean a united ireland makes more sense.

edited cos i dont know what it meant either
14/02/2006, 3:33 PM
finlma

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

but seriouslly is in indirectly happening by greater co-operation between all, that eventually people realise its economically more viable and "mentally" as well?!?!

Paul, what the hell does that sentence mean?

I agree that its great to see more co-operation between north and south but the only way a united Ireland can come about is if the people up there want it.

Personally I couldn't care less unless of course they produce another George Best ;)
14/02/2006, 3:36 PM
Block G Raptor

Another baby step on the road to unity? I've been saying for years the only way a united Ireland can work is to make it economically attractive to moderate citizens of the six counties ie. electricity is cheaper in UK
Gas is cheaper in UK phones are Cheaper in UK BEER is cheaper.........you get the picture. I do think that the gap in the cost of living has decreased in recent years but I dont know if it's a consious decision from those in power to do this to pave the way to a 32 county republic. Would make the transition marginally less painful for the unionists though !
16/02/2006, 10:50 AM
CollegeTillIDie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Block G Raptor

Another baby step on the road to unity? I've been saying for years the only way a united Ireland can work is to make it economically attractive to moderate citizens of the six counties ie. electricity is cheaper in UK
Gas is cheaper in UK phones are Cheaper in UK BEER is cheaper.........you get the picture. I do think that the gap in the cost of living has decreased in recent years but I dont know if it's a consious decision from those in power to do this to pave the way to a 32 county republic. Would make the transition marginally less painful for the unionists though !

Yes but the social payments are way lower up there!:D
16/02/2006, 1:09 PM
Roverstillidie

is all this integration not happening between all eu states?
16/02/2006, 3:56 PM
Block G Raptor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roverstillidie

is all this integration not happening between all eu states?

Good Point RTID. Sure we're not Irish any more were European:rolleyes:
17/02/2006, 7:38 AM
CollegeTillIDie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Block G Raptor

Good Point RTID. Sure we're not Irish any more were European:rolleyes:

If a more united Europe means a more united Ireland where's the harm in that?:rolleyes:
17/02/2006, 10:42 PM
dcfcsteve

The core of John Hume's arguement was that Britain versus Ireland in terms of ownership of the North would become increasingly irrelevant within the context of the EU. As with a lot of things, the man was visionary....

The border effectively no longer exists. There are no roads between north and south that you can't travel any more. There is no-one stopping you when you make that journey. There is a plethora of other ways in which closer integration will continue to happen - i.e. using gas or electricity without knowing which side of the border it came from; not having to pay 'roaming' charges on your mobile phone if you cross the border; having the same party in government north and south (i.e. Sinn Fein). The numerous baby steps towards closer integration will continue.

The single biggest step, however, would be the Euro. That is the most obvious difference now between north and south. A tourist could cross the border without realising they were in a different country - except for the currency (though they'd get done for speeding for not converting their miles into km's.... :D ). Once we have the same currency, the job's as good as done.

I wouldn't be surprised if the longer-term solution for Northern Ireland is neither an exclusively British or Irish answer - but a shared ownership and endurig connection with BOTH the Republic and Britain at the same time. A strongly federalist province of the UK with many shared laws with the Republic that is to all extents and purposes a de-facto part of the rest of Ireland.
17/02/2006, 11:20 PM
crc

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

The core of John Hume's arguement was that Britain versus Ireland in terms of ownership of the North would become increasingly irrelevant within the context of the EU. As with a lot of things, the man was visionary....

A truly great man!

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

The single biggest step, however, would be the Euro.

I can't believe that the UK is still so hostile towards the euro, but for NI its a killer (however, it should be noted that the south left the original currency union with the north (+GB) in the 70s). I get the feeling, though, that some unionists object to the euro simply because the south use it, and not because of its intrinsic (dis)advantage (same applies to smoking ban).

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

I wouldn't be surprised if the longer-term solution for Northern Ireland is neither an exclusively British or Irish answer

I think that all of Ireland needs to face up to the British aspects of culture here. There are many legitimate reasons for Irish people to be fond of Britain, and should embrace accordingly, but this is not the same as abandoning Irish identity or not wanting Irish unity/freedom. Above all, we need to break the stranglehold that the monolithic Catholic/GAA/anti-British strand appears to hold on Irish identity. Protestantism IS Irish, Rugby IS Irish, The Sash IS Irish, Organisations with 'Royal' in their name ARE Irish, but admiting as much doesn't mean that all the other things (Catholicism, GAA, FF/FG, Fleadh Ceoil) aren't.

Irish unity (not just Peace in NI) is all about parity of esteem. Both sides must be comfortable with the traditions of the other - and that works both ways. Having a British and an Irish identity are not mutually exclusive, though neither are they co-requisits.

======

As a Post-Script, did anyone see the BBC program on the border the other night? Not a bad show, very interesting what happenned to Pettigoe and Beleek.
18/02/2006, 7:22 AM
CollegeTillIDie

Quote:

Originally Posted by crc

A truly great man!
I think that all of Ireland needs to face up to the British aspects of culture here. There are many legitimate reasons for Irish people to be fond of Britain, and should embrace accordingly, but this is not the same as abandoning Irish identity or not wanting Irish unity/freedom. Above all, we need to break the stranglehold that the monolithic Catholic/GAA/anti-British strand appears to hold on Irish identity. Protestantism IS Irish, Rugby IS Irish, The Sash IS Irish, Organisations with 'Royal' in their name ARE Irish, but admiting as much doesn't mean that all the other things (Catholicism, GAA, FF/FG, Fleadh Ceoil) aren't.

Irish unity (not just Peace in NI) is all about parity of esteem. Both sides must be comfortable with the traditions of the other - and that works both ways. Having a British and an Irish identity are not mutually exclusive, though neither are they co-requisites !

Well I have to agree with 90% of your posting. Whether we like it or not most people use English as their First language. The RDS and Church Of Ireland are definitely Irish. The Sash is a traditional Irish air. Rugby is derived from the ancient Irish game of Caid and I would agree I think it is possibly even more Irish than Bogball. However I am not now and never will be British in any way. This is spite of a substantial does of Anglo-Irish ancestry. That doesn't mean that people in East Belfast do not have the right to think of themselves in that way!
18/02/2006, 5:14 PM
crc

Quote:

Originally Posted by crc

Having a British and an Irish identity are not mutually exclusive, though neither are they co-requisites !

Quote:

Originally Posted by CollegeTillIDie

Well I have to agree with 90% of your posting.
...
However I am not now and never will be British in any way. ...That doesn't mean that people in East Belfast do not have the right to think of themselves in that way!

My above comment is the same as what you're saying, I think. What I mean is that someone can feel Irish and not at all British, or they can feel British and Irish, but there are some on this island who feel that if you display any amount of Britishness then you automatically can't be Irish, which is both stupid and counter-productive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crc

I think that all of Ireland needs to face up to the British aspects of culture here

By this comment, I mean that all Irishmen (and women) should respect the right of many here to express their Britishness, even if that sentiment doesn't apply to oneself.