Are we the only league that does this?

Are we the only league who's fans sit around and constantly question the right to smaller club's rights to exist in the league. People often harp on about UCD offering nothing to the Premier or even more noteably Dublin City pointing to our comparatively low attendances. In Scotland Livingston and Inverness Caley have very small fan bases and attendances by comparison to the other clubs yet you rarely if ever hear people harping on about how they shouldn't be there. A similar club in England would be Wigan who I think only sold out their ground the other week for the first time since it was built against Arsenal. Their attendances were even poor by Championship standards last season. Why are we so obsessed with scrutinising and bashing other clubs and keep talking about ridiculous things like dumping teams with small average attendances? The Scottish Premier League in fact had to adjust their rule on the stadium size requirement to let Inverness in as they realised it was pointless to force a team with such a small fanbase to build a 10,000 seater stadium. They accepted that in fact you couldn't hold a team back who has done the business on the field. Why do we club's with low attendances when in fact we should be encouraging them to try and attract more?

Best post on the matter ever. I echo your sentiments .

Poor Student, a man after my own heart. By the logic of some of the posters on here I wouldn't have a club to support because of our small attendance in the previous few years. All the small-minded, parochial, my clubs bigger than yours, nonsense has to stop people. The league in general is a great,big, poorly attended joke and people claiming bragging rights and calling for the winding up of other clubs either have very short memories or a loose grip on reality :ball:

I've given up criticising UCD as at least they develop their own players. CHF offer absolutely nothing to the entire league. They just pick up the usual yoyo players from around the pale, don't have own ground, don't bring any new support into the league & they move grounds like nomades - played in Inchicore, Tolka & Whitehall this year - maybe also Dalymount?

When people at in Tolka/Dalymount/Richmond/Whitehall next season with 200 fans fans watching CHF i think will be more threads about them.

Scottish football is different as they have 4 divisions where as we have 2 with teams stuck near the bottom of the 1st divsion in limbo...

Aberdonian Stu says that while he was over in Scotland, he found Livingston to be the most unpopular team outside the Old Firm partly because they had low attendances (although partly also because they were seen as a rich man's plaything). I remember Wimbledon and Luton coming in for a lot of stick because of their low crowds (about 7000 in the top flight) after the novelty of them in the top flight had worn off, though I think the English are more accepting of the underdog's success and all that. Other countries - not a clue. In eastern Europe in particular, there's often a small club from the capital who get much smaller crowds than the rest (e.g NK Ljubljana in Slovenia - you'd know about them more than me).

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Originally Posted by pete

I've given up criticising UCD as at least they develop their own players.

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Yayyy!:)

I'm sorry Pete, but I think frustrated eL fans have totally lost scope here. Frustrations of poor league wide attendances are being taken out on the smaller clubs. This seems to be a very inorganic way of talking about football. Do people want to construct a perfect Premier Division with the correct formula of clubs to produce the most optimum average attendance?

Pineapple I am aware of the unpopularness of Livy, but it's really nothing by comparison. It does not occupy very regular discussion with the solution of some being to throw them out. NK Ljubljana (now dead and relaunched as FC Ljubljana in the Slovenian 5th flight) had less fans than Dub City and struggled just as bad but no Olimpija fans called for their head either.

I think this is misguided and misfocused discussion. We should be looking at how to get people going to the small clubs as well as the big ones. Football will always inevitably have its poorer relations but in a league as small and popular as this it makes from some pretty imporverished ones.

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Originally Posted by Poor Student

Are we the only league who's fans sit around and constantly question the right to smaller club's rights to exist in the league. People often harp on about UCD offering nothing to the Premier or even more noteably Dublin City pointing to our comparatively low attendances. In Scotland Livingston and Inverness Caley have very small fan bases and attendances by comparison to the other clubs yet you rarely if ever hear people harping on about how they shouldn't be there. A similar club in England would be Wigan who I think only sold out their ground the other week for the first time since it was built against Arsenal. Their attendances were even poor by Championship standards last season. Why are we so obsessed with scrutinising and bashing other clubs and keep talking about ridiculous things like dumping teams with small average attendances? The Scottish Premier League in fact had to adjust their rule on the stadium size requirement to let Inverness in as they realised it was pointless to force a team with such a small fanbase to build a 10,000 seater stadium. They accepted that in fact you couldn't hold a team back who has done the business on the field. Why do we club's with low attendances when in fact we should be encouraging them to try and attract more?

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I can see where you're coming from, but I think you are missing the point. It's not about size.
UCD occasionally can put on a good footballing show, but they can't get away from the awkward fact that they are a college team. It just doesn't feel right: you're never sure what exactly you're playing against (viz. the Dublin hurling controversy) and, of course, a college team has a bigger cushion against off-field realities.
Worse, CHF is an opportunistic attempt to cash in on a name and a blue shirt in an already crowded city club scene. Anyone who follows them and doesn't have a previous personal association with the club is being suckered, just the same as those unsuspecting tourists they sell their kit to in Carroll's.
I'd rather play a real club like Limerick or Athlone, even if it had fewer supporters, than this outfit.
Think of it like this: we might have a less tolerant reaction from the Scots if a 200-supporter Glasgow City somehow managed to get it together on the field!

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Originally Posted by BohDiddley

UCD occasionally can put on a good footballing show, but they can't get away from the awkward fact that they are a college team. It just doesn't feel right: you're never sure what exactly you're playing against (viz. the Dublin hurling controversy) and, of course, a college team has a bigger cushion against off-field realities.

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Now we get to thorny areas. The debate about the UCD hurling team is entirely different and centres around the facts that (a) the players can play for their home club as well (I think) and (b) the hurling is a regional competition and it's unfair for clubs who pick purely from their town to compete against clubs who can "sign" anyone. This doesn't apply to the eircom League.
UCD have no extra cushion against off-field realities - in fact, we're very stringently regulated by the college authorities, so we had to keep our house in order while the rest of yez have been off squandering money and running up huge debts. We're also not a college team in the sense that the players are the best XI from the college - we can sign who we want. Any misperceptions by other fans on these matters are unfortunately their problems, not ours.

I think the problem with UCD in people's minds is that they are a college team that seemingly have very little potential in maintaining support. If you go to UCD with an interest in EL you probably already support a team. Its not as thou many people around the area go and support UCD as their local team?

Dublin City are disliked for reasons above.

Personally people think the league has too many teams. I personally would not be too upset with UCD or Dublin City going, compared to that of Pats or Bohs.

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Originally Posted by Gareth

It's not as though many people around the area go and support UCD as their local team?

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Actually, since we gave up on trying to get students to games, we have had some success in getting locals to games. There's now a good many locals - many more than go to games, obviously, as with any football club - who consider UCD to be their local team. I often have people recognise me - kids mainly, but not exclusively - and say that they go to games and enjoy it and who's coming or going, etc., etc.

The only teams with average attendaces above 1000 in the IL are Glentoran and Linfield so we shouldn't be critical of clubs trying to get a foothold in their communities. It is harder to go and support a club with 100 other fans than it is to go and jump on a bandwagon.

If the attendances are to be slated then at least respect the few fans who do make an effort.

Fair play to u, thats a mature attitude

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Originally Posted by Speranza

If the attendances are to be slated then at least respect the few fans who do make an effort.

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Excellent Point. to berate fans who go to games about poor attendances is just plain stupid. What are they expected to do? force everyone they know at gunpoint to the ground every friday night? ffs

As said already its not just attendances but potential.

I really couldn't care less what happens in the 1st division which i suspect would be close to SPL example. Is that a better approach to have?

Lowest UCD crowd i've been at would be around 500 wheras last CHF game had 150-200 including 50 away fans.

Pete, would you get down off your high horse and stop trying to belittle DC and their fans! Sure they may be a reletivly new club, but Cork City have hardly got a long history have they??? Do Cork own their own ground? No! I think DC have as much right as anyone to be where they are, I wonder what people would be saying about them if they were located in an area lacking an EL team???

Have no problem with UCD (though some of their anti Rovers stuff here is baffling) but CHF bring nothing to the league. For the zillionth you cannot have a club without support.

KOH

Every club gets **** crowds, Cork included - 4,000 out of a population of 150k is no great achievement, its the same as Monaghan getting 180 out of 7000! Its even worse in Dublin - less than 1% of the population go to games.

It's all crap about who deserves to be in the Prem div. and who dosen't.All the teams that are in it are there on merit and that's what counts and rightly so.It's a shame that Rovers have gone down but they just didn't get it right on the pitch and they had the chance even with their points deducted.Some people need to get down off their high horse and realise that DC have earned the right to play prem div football so leave them be.

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Originally Posted by BohDiddley

Worse, CHF is an opportunistic attempt to cash in on a name and a blue shirt in an already crowded city club scene. Anyone who follows them and doesn't have a previous personal association with the club is being suckered, just the same as those unsuspecting tourists they sell their kit to in Carroll's.
I'd rather play a real club like Limerick or Athlone, even if it had fewer supporters, than this outfit.

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omg, what is wrong with me?! for once i actually agree 100% with something boh diddley said...:eek: :eek: :eek: