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This will probably generate partisan heat rather than light, but I wonder...are Cork better champions than Shels over the last two seasons or us in '02/'03? - and, to put the same question another way, will they do better in the champions league? for my money, they're more creative than Shels in the last two years and as good (at least) as our last championship team. What does anyone think?
ya they are the best Champions that ive seen for a few years at least.
I don't think it is down to be most creative to be the best champions it is those who are most formidable...the combination of Molloy, Gilzean and Gormley at Pats were *at least* as formidable than Cork or Derry or Shels for different reasons, imo.
well since the four in a row, only two teams have retained titles
in our case we won three in four years in two sequences (96-99) or (98-01). this cork side are good no doubt
Congrats (ye are vieing with UCD as the small club that City find it hard to beat).Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy-boy
That Pats team was great, although Id say that City would probably beat them as they are a full pro team where as Pats werent quite (and who knows, City might win the double ;)).
Anyway, City set a record points total last night so its fair to say that they are one of the best teams of modern times.
Not really like with like though is it? Shels last two titles were on 36 match seasons; our last title was a 27 match season; and while Cork's total might be impressive on 3 fewer matches, you have to reckon that, with two extra teams in the division, they're going to be weaker teams meaning -potentially - 9 easy points; instead of 4 games against the tough teams, you only have three and so on. Until we have a fair run of seasons with the same format and number of teams these comparisons are meaninglessQuote:
Originally Posted by Troy.McClure
I think that Bohs team that won the league under Stephen Kenny were also an excellent side and were great to watch.
The Shels team are full of winners, I mean just watch Eoin Heary, but a lot of the time they won more because of their phyisical approach than their classy football. But I think over the last 2 months they are are a better team that they were in the previous 2 seasons.
I think history will look favourably on this seasons champions. They played the game for the large part of the season the way it should be played. It was justification to the Richardson style of play.:ball: :)
Ask me again in a couple of years.
Think you might be right - they played us off the pitch last night; Fenlon would be mad to sell Ndo, though, as has been suggested on another threadQuote:
Originally Posted by harry crumb
Despite finishing second we still passed the previous record points total.
$hels last year were the best champions I have seen but not as good as the treble winners of '89 for us even though I was too young to remember no team have done it since.
Shels should have done alot better this summer .... they are (were) capable of alot more that they actually did. I dont know what happened but when they sorted it out, they went on a brilliant run.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonofstan
Was it Fenlon saying in an interview that the players have to ship some of the blame or what (obviously not but something happened anyway) but Shels got back on track.
They were capable of far more and didn't realise it, which is harder to stomach because i dont mind if we are not able and give it a good shot, i mean anything you get there is all good. But Shels ARE/WERE able to do more, but things didn't fall into place. But no doubt they'll be back.
If Fenlon willingly sells Ndo he should he put away. He is an incredible player.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonofstan
As for what happened, it's as simple as we finally started picking our right team. I don't think it was ever a case of motivation or committment as people say. It is no coincidence whatsoever that our turn around in form came when the two biggest liabilities in the team, Crawley and Baker (Why on earth we re-signed him is beyond most peoples grasp), were removed. Cahill went to left back and Bobby Ryan, who was outstanding until his injury, came in. This meant we didn't have the almighty long ball merchant at left back or a player not capable of playing in a proper footballing side on the right wing. We also at pretty much the same time reintrudocued our best player, Joey Ndo, into the side in central mid field after his inexplicable and very frustrating absence from the side. We now had a real play maker in the middle, and suddenly the team was playing football rather than long ball which we're far more suited to doing. We have only lost once since and we've played every team in the league in that 12 game run, and it sets us up very nicely for next season. I just wish we did it earlier as the fans were crying out for those changes literally from the start of the season. We'd have given Steaua a far better game for a start, but it all bodes very well for next season.
I'm hoping all of you guys are too young to remember our 4 in a row side in the 80s, either that or you're all taking the ****
By that measure we are also better then as ourselves and Cork broke the points record! Obviously because Cork won they will be remembered.
TBH if we won on Friday I think we would still find credit hard to come by due to the rapid rise of our team.
Not too bad there. Nearly good enough. But as the LOI representatives in the European cup on those 4 occasions Rovers were knocked out in the 1st round (Omonia, Lingfield, Celtic and Honved).Quote:
Originally Posted by hoopy
My vote goes to the Mc Laughlin Dundalk team 76 - 82 champions thrice, r/u twice. In this period Dundalk's European record did the League proud. I would say that the best record for League champions is the team of 1978/79, League and cup winners and then blazing a trail in the European cup beating Lingfield, Hibernians and eventually going out to a very fortunate Celtic. They then lost the league title to Limerick by a point.
I think 2 in a row in the professional era speaks for itself, and if it was Shelbourne I think many more would agree!!!
and the 4 in a row team played for a hug at the end of the week?Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumcondra Red
there were many full time professional clubs in the league before shels recent switch. if you were older than 17 you would know that.
ffs :rolleyes:
Erm, I'm talking full-time professional, as many clubs have become in the last few years, and I'm 24 you plank!
Fair play to winning 4 in a row fella, but I do believe that champions the last few years, including Cork, would beat most teams from the 80's, thats just my opinion, although my first Shelbourne match wasn't until roughly 1990-91 so didn't actually experience 80's NL football first hand, ok???
I agree with that. Also the Bohs side that won the double under Roddy.Quote:
Originally Posted by harry crumb
The Pats side in the late 90's were great too.
As a Cork City fan, I'm incredibly proud because we won the league on merit and with style. We were pushed hard by a very good Derry side. Some of our football was a joy to watch this season. I don't think it's right to talk about teams being better champions than others though.
your actual age is irrellevant. im making the point that many shels fans think the league started the day they began following oilies army.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumcondra Red
The ignorance of a statement that clubs have only become full time pro in the last few years is astounding. You really know nothing about this leagues history at all, do you?
The league was fully pro (at least the top sides) until the early 70's.
Many clubs since then experimented with full time set ups (Rovers under Giles, Sligo under McStay/Sanchez/Reid etc etc.).
Whether this Cork side would beat a Rovers side including Buckley (went from Rovers to play in Spain and Belguim), Beglin (sold to Liverpool), O'Brien (sold to Man Utd), Pat Byrne (semi-regular in the Irish side at the time), Mick Byrne, Campbell, Coady (sold to Chelsea) and Larkin is obiously a matter of opinion, but these were serious footballers who would have won more if it wasnt for the Milltown debacle.
Cork are a good side and fair play, but lets not go mad quite yet.