2nd UEFA Spot

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02/10/2005, 9:47 PM
TheOwl

2nd UEFA Spot

I read last week (in the Herald admittedly) that the second UEFA cup spot would only go to the cup runners-up if they were beaten in the final by the league WINNER.

So for example, say Derry win the league, but Cork win the cup over Drogs/Bray in the final, then Shels will get the second UEFA spot and not Drogs/Bray, while if Cork had won the league and then went on to win the Cup too, the second UEFA spot would go to Drogs/Bray.

Before reading this piece in the Herald, I always presumed the cup runners-up would get into the UEFA Cup so long as their opponents had already qualified for Europe.

Can anyone confirm the correct procedure? I suspect that this Herald piece has given me some false hope.
02/10/2005, 11:03 PM
Student Mullet

The Herald is correct.
02/10/2005, 11:08 PM
coislaoi

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOwl

I read last week (in the Herald admittedly) that the second UEFA cup spot would only go to the cup runners-up if they were beaten in the final by the league WINNER.

So for example, say Derry win the league, but Cork win the cup over Drogs/Bray in the final, then Shels will get the second UEFA spot and not Drogs/Bray, while if Cork had won the league and then went on to win the Cup too, the second UEFA spot would go to Drogs/Bray.

Before reading this piece in the Herald, I always presumed the cup runners-up would get into the UEFA Cup so long as their opponents had already qualified for Europe.

Can anyone confirm the correct procedure? I suspect that this Herald piece has given me some false hope.

Unbelievably the Herald is correct. The reason is that the Cup final spot is seeded ahead of the runners up spot in the league. Hence Longford were seeded ahead of Cork City in the UEFA Cup this year.
02/10/2005, 11:23 PM
TheOwl

So there is more hope for Shels to be dashed yet so :D
03/10/2005, 8:49 AM
coislaoi

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOwl

So there is more hope for Shels to be dashed yet so :D

So you are praying for neither team to win the double.:eek: :D
03/10/2005, 9:58 AM
pete

When shels play Cork City on the 2nd last weekend of the league they'll know exactly what result required.

- If Cork City are in Cup final will Shels roll over as will want Cork City to win league too? This is a very interesting scenario....
- If Derry City are in Cup final Shels will have bigger incentive to stop Cork City from winning the league.
03/10/2005, 10:44 AM
anto eile

surely the uefa place should stays in the cup- ie winners then runners up then semi finalist
didnt newcastle qualify for the uefa cup a few seasons ago through th efa cup semi, as the other 3 clubs had already qualified for europe via the league?
03/10/2005, 10:45 AM
coislaoi

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

When shels play Cork City on the 2nd last weekend of the league they'll know exactly what result required.

- If Cork City are in Cup final will Shels roll over as will want Cork City to win league too? This is a very interesting scenario....
- If Derry City are in Cup final Shels will have bigger incentive to stop Cork City from winning the league.

I don't think your first scenario is correct. A Cork City double will mean Shels will be not be in the UEFA as the cup spot would then go to Drogs or Bray with Derry 2nd in the league.

In your 2nd scenario it would be in Shels interest for us to win the league.
03/10/2005, 10:56 AM
Hecko

Yeah I think Coislaoi is right. If Derry win the cup game, then Shels will want CCFC to win the league as this means that Bray/Drogheda don't get the UEFA spot if Derry go on and win the final.

If Cork win the cup game, then Shels want Derry to win the league for the same reason.

Obviously if either Drogs/Bray win the cup it's no good fro Shels anyway
03/10/2005, 11:21 AM
pete

Yeah my scenarios are the wrong way around - basically Shels need a Cup-League double so Uefa place reverts to the league.

If i had my way Uefa place would always revert to league so that only Cup winner could qualify & never the runner-up.
03/10/2005, 11:35 AM
Poor Student

How odd, Shels could be in a position whereby winning a game would decrease their chances of qualifying for Europe.
03/10/2005, 3:18 PM
Troy.McClure

It would be great if Shels could slip back another bit ub the league so they would need to win to stay in third in the league, but also want Cork to win to get the league title if they were already in the Cup final. Now that would wreck their heads! :D
04/10/2005, 8:30 AM
Roo69

Quote:

Originally Posted by anto eile

surely the uefa place should stays in the cup- ie winners then runners up then semi finalist
didnt newcastle qualify for the uefa cup a few seasons ago through th efa cup semi, as the other 3 clubs had already qualified for europe via the league?

Yeah thats what i thought and what we have been lead to believe by tyhe FAI as well. Example - When Man Utd beat Millwall in the FA Cup 2 seasons ago, United finished 2nd in the l;eague but because they were already in europe the cup place went to the loosing finalists.
04/10/2005, 8:42 AM
ColinR

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roo69

Yeah thats what i thought and what we have been lead to believe by tyhe FAI as well. Example - When Man Utd beat Millwall in the FA Cup 2 seasons ago, United finished 2nd in the l;eague but because they were already in europe the cup place went to the loosing finalists.

the difference there was united had already qualified for the champions league, which would tae precedence over the uefa cup spot for the fa cup. therefore millwall take up the fa cup spot.
04/10/2005, 10:34 AM
Troy.McClure

Does it really matter? The spot is going to go to Shels anyway, ore way or the other [nudge nudge, wink wink]
04/10/2005, 10:48 AM
ThatGuy

In the event that Derry win the league and Cork win the Cup, or vice-versa, and Shels get the 2nd UEFA spot, who will get the Intertoto spot?

Even though this may mean that my club can still get a European spot, it is a joke that the UEFA spot can be taken away from the Cup like this and Bray and Drogheda should be protesting.
04/10/2005, 10:54 AM
tiktok

As it stands Drogs would get the Inter-toto spot as they'd be fourth in the league
04/10/2005, 10:57 AM
anto eile

bray and drogheda should kick up an almighty fuss about this,
though id hate to see bray in europe-theyd be hammered by whoever they play
04/10/2005, 10:58 AM
gspain

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThatGuy

In the event that Derry win the league and Cork win the Cup, or vice-versa, and Shels get the 2nd UEFA spot, who will get the Intertoto spot?

Even though this may mean that my club can still get a European spot, it is a joke that the UEFA spot can be taken away from the Cup like this and Bray and Drogheda should be protesting.

Protesting what???????????????????

It has always been that way. There is a spot for the Cup WINNERS. If they also win the league then it goes to the cup runners up. If not they take the UEFA Cup spot and if they finish 2nd in the league also the spot will go to the 3rd spot.
04/10/2005, 11:13 AM
ColinR

why kick up a fuss. the european spot should go to a club on merit, not for losing in something. if the cup runners up dont qualify through their league placing then tough.

anyway who says that the winner of the cork-derry match will automatically win the cup.

one off games don't always go to form.