Dublin Dons

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16/09/2005, 12:34 PM
ThatGuy

Dublin Dons

I see in the EL supplement in today's Mirror that Damien Richardson was/is in favour of Wimbledon moving to Dublin :eek:

A relatively interesting article. I have new found respect for Bernard O'Byrne now.

In fairness to Richardson he makes valid points as to why he favoured such a move, but I am in 100% disagreement with him as Wimbledon moving to Dublin would have destroyed Irish football as far as I am concerned. Aside from the Eircom league, this is Ireland, not England.

Their move to Milton Keynes (or however you spell that place) has supposedly been a disaster and they want out. I hope this article doesn't mean that people at the club are considering reviving the whole thing.
16/09/2005, 1:46 PM
Partizan

It was a non runner from the start. Despite the fact that two of Ireland's biggest muppets, Amoan Grumpy and Bono were behind it, UEFA & FIFA were vehemently opposed to it.

NEXT PLEASE. :ball:
16/09/2005, 2:03 PM
Mr_T

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cop on

Cork & Derry to Scotland.

We live and hope!!! :p :D
16/09/2005, 2:11 PM
BohsFans

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThatGuy

I see in the EL supplement in today's Mirror that Damien Richardson was/is in favour of Wimbledon moving to Dublin :eek:

A relatively interesting article. I have new found respect for Bernard O'Byrne now.

In fairness to Richardson he makes valid points as to why he favoured such a move, but I am in 100% disagreement with him as Wimbledon moving to Dublin would have destroyed Irish football as far as I am concerned. Aside from the Eircom league, this is Ireland, not England.

Their move to Milton Keynes (or however you spell that place) has supposedly been a disaster and they want out. I hope this article doesn't mean that people at the club are considering reviving the whole thing.

Did O'Byrne oppose it or something??
16/09/2005, 3:03 PM
ThatGuy

According to him he opposed it, and Wimbledon's board told him that having the best legal team in Ireland will be useless because they will have the best legal team in England (tossers) and threathened him by saying that as the FAI won't be able to cover the damages from any court case that he and the other directors of the FAI will be personally liable for the losses incurred.

Quote:

It was a non runner from the start. Despite the fact that two of Ireland's biggest muppets, Amoan Grumpy and Bono were behind it, UEFA & FIFA were vehemently opposed to it.

Apparently the deal was and is a runner because of several other cases of clubs playing in leagues outside of their jurisdiction in Europe and further afield.

And apparently EU competition law means that should the case have gone to the European courts that UEFA etc would have a very tough case.
16/09/2005, 3:09 PM
Vitruvian Man

A lot of what goes on in football sees very dodgy when taken in the light of EU legislation and the only time it has been significantly tested in the Courts was the Bosman case and the football establishment lost out.

But I doubt the Milton Dons have the financial muscle to take on UEFA or FIFA.
16/09/2005, 3:17 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cop on

Cork & Derry to Scotland.

Longford might have an outside chance of a Top 3 finish then. :p

Though you'd still be cac in Europe......
16/09/2005, 3:17 PM
Roverstillidie

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThatGuy

According to him he opposed it, and Wimbledon's board told him that having the best legal team in Ireland will be useless because they will have the best legal team in England (tossers) and threathened him by saying that as the FAI won't be able to cover the damages from any court case that he and the other directors of the FAI will be personally liable for the losses incurred.

Apparently the deal was and is a runner because of several other cases of clubs playing in leagues outside of their jurisdiction in Europe and further afield.

And apparently EU competition law means that should the case have gone to the European courts that UEFA etc would have a very tough case.

not quite legally correct though. derry, berwick & monaco play in the league of 'another country' (sorry candystripes, but you know what i mean), but stayed in the same location
wimbeldon wanted to stay in the same league and move location (in this case to another country and to an unwelcoming association). ie a US style franchise. they just about got permission to move to milton keynes.
No way jose said FIFA.
there would be mayhem with italian clubs moving to france, manure moving to malaysia and all sorts.
would never and will never happen.
16/09/2005, 3:27 PM
Duffman

That may have been an attractive option to them when they were knocknig about the higher divisions but I can't see their current opposition, Tranmere and chesterfield fancying a trip to Dublin to play. Pricy or what,
16/09/2005, 3:28 PM
ThatGuy

I agree with you RoverstillIdie, but legally what is the difference between Derry being in Northern Ireland playing in the Republic's league, Monaco being in the principality of Monaco and playing in the French League, Cardiff City being in Wales and playing in the English league, the Liechtenstein team that beat Longford playing in the Swiss league etc. They did not all change location, but clubs can change location at will can't they?

I know that all of that is not relevant to the EU, but the case of Wimbledon moving here was, as far as I can remember, based on EU law.
16/09/2005, 3:33 PM
Poor Student

Didn't the now defunct Clydebank consider such a move too?
16/09/2005, 3:40 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roverstillidie

not quite legally correct though. derry, berwick & monaco play in the league of 'another country' (sorry candystripes, but you know what i mean), but stayed in the same location
wimbeldon wanted to stay in the same league and move location (in this case to another country and to an unwelcoming association). ie a US style franchise. they just about got permission to move to milton keynes.
No way jose said FIFA.
there would be mayhem with italian clubs moving to france, manure moving to malaysia and all sorts.
would never and will never happen.

Not at all correct I'm afraid. WhethEr Wimbledon moved to a different country or not wasn't really an issue. It made their case much more complicated, but it wasn't what stopped it happening. EU Restraint of Trade legislation would cover both a club moving league but staying put, and one staying in the same league, but moving location. It's still all about being allowed to conduct your 'business' from anywhere within the EU.

When the Welsh FA was taken to court their 'exile' clubs in 1994, the clubs won their case under restrictive trade law in the English High Court (Judge Blackburn made the ruling). The Welsh FA had up until then actually prevented those clubs from playing within the geographical area of Wales for nearly 2 seasons previously That was clubs wanting to stay where they were based (i.e. Wales) whilst playing in the league of another country (i.e. England). EU law is even clearer than English law on the prevention of restrictive trade.

I had it explained to me directly by a former member of UEFA'S governing committee that there is nothing to legally stop clubs from one jurisdiction playing in another. All that is required is for the rule-making body of the league they want to join (i.e. the clubs already there) agreeing to this, within their own rule book (i.e. vote to accept a new member).

The only penalty against clubs that do make such a move is that they can then be prevented by the League that they have left behind from ever representing that country in Europe again - as happens with the Welsh exile clubs at the moment. But if their new host league is willing to nominate them for Europe if they qualify through their channels, then this is no real barrier to them.

This came straight from the mouth of a senior UEFA elected official.
17/09/2005, 10:30 AM
BohDiddley

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

It's still all about being allowed to conduct your 'business' from anywhere within the EU.

This greasy till, neo-liberal kwackery of football as a business is at the root of many of the game's problems. :mad:
Football is above business.
17/09/2005, 10:38 AM
OwlsFan

I wasn't surprised when the poison dwarf (Dumpy) supported the move of Wimbledon to Dublin. Afterall he was vehement in his support of the Kilcoynes when they sold Milltown to developers and also his buddy, Joe Kinnear, was manager of the Dons at the time I think.

That's also one of the reasons he had the knive in for McCarthy from the outset as he got the job ahead of Kinnear but that's another issue.

There should have considered Belfast instead. Same country (UK) so less difficulties there.
17/09/2005, 4:22 PM
Roverstillidie

I accept most of that DCFC steve, but its not quite the same move.
Wimbeldon would have been moving location and staying on the same league.
Derry for exapmle moved leagues, same location.
Its a vital difference, becasue you would have a team not located in England/Wales in the English league and a team located in Ireland not playing under the jurastiction of the FAI.
Which body (FA or FAI) would be responsible for them?
Would the players pay Irish tax?
If so could players at other English league clubs become 'resident' here?
Could they represent Ireland or England in Europe? Or both. The Welsh clubs in Englands experience would probably mean no.
The situation is more legally complex than Monaco or Cardiff. It was a pure US franchise type situation and there is no way FIFA will let that happen.
And thankfully a dead duck.
17/09/2005, 4:27 PM
RedX

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThatGuy

I see in the EL supplement in today's Mirror that Damien Richardson was/is in favour of Wimbledon moving to Dublin :eek:

Stir...Stir...Stir.....Stir.... :rolleyes: ...you must have a very boring life... ;)
17/09/2005, 4:41 PM
ThatGuy

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedX

Stir...Stir...Stir.....Stir.... :rolleyes: ...you must have a very boring life... ;)

Yeah the Mirror is in on it too :rolleyes:
17/09/2005, 5:02 PM
RedX

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThatGuy

Yeah the Mirror is in on it too :rolleyes:

This is the 2nd thread in a row you have started trying to kick things off about something to do with Cork City FC..maybe others dont spot it but i do..firstly in your last thread you call City fans Nazis and now you are trying to get Damien Richardson blamed for some nothing thing..i am not going to get in a long argument with you this time but seriously cop yourself on and change the subject fom our club if you have nothing else to say.. :rolleyes:
17/09/2005, 5:16 PM
ThatGuy

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedX

This is the 2nd thread in a row you have started trying to kick things off about something to do with Cork City FC..maybe others dont spot it but i do..firstly in your last thread you call City fans Nazis and now you are trying to get Damien Richardson blamed for some nothing thing..i am not going to get in a long argument with you this time but seriously cop yourself on and change the subject fom our club if you have nothing else to say.. :rolleyes:

I'm not attacking Richardson, how paranoid are you? I brought up an article in the Eircom League supplement of national paper that was published on Friday about the Dublin Dons, and pointed out the surprising fact that Richardson openly supported it. I didn't ridicule him for it, I just said I don't agree with him. He is entitled to his opinion. If you don't think that he said anything in favour of the Dublin Dons then you are mistaken. Also, I said that he had valid reasons for supporting the move.

What am I supposed to be blaming him for? Seriously, what!

Also, I called Cork fans Nazis? Not true. You are confusing the earlier thread where I said that some chanted "the referee is a Nazi", which for the record was backed up by a few posters here. That's a dead issue at this stage anyway and I don't think that anyone cares either ways now.
17/09/2005, 7:10 PM
BohDiddley

Another anti-Cork conspiracy!
Mods will be in to close down this thread soon enough so ... ;)