Heimir Hallgrímsson

Had posted this in the manager search thread, but the search is over so it's time for Heimir to have his own thread I think...


A good report on Heimir from Geysir which is encouraging to hear. My initial reaction to the announcement was that I didn't know much about him but it was reasonable to give the man a fair chance. But having learnt more over the last 18 hours or so I'm definitely encouraged by what I'm learning about this guy.

- He was more than just a supporting player in Iceland's success in the 2010s, he was the manager for part of it and was heavily involved before that also.
- He seems to set his teams up sensibly and pragmatically, he's unlikely to go down the delusional road of trying to make us successful playing a style of football that we don't have the players to play.
- His teams' style of play seems to suit the potential strengths of our playing pool - big, strong defenders who play simple, compact football (O'Shea/O'Brien/Omobamidele/Collins), hard working midfielders who sit can deep and protect the defence (Cullen/Smallbone/Knight), attacking on the counter with pace rather than trying to methodically play through the midfield (Ogbene/Johnston/Ebosele) and using target man forwards who can hold the ball up and bring others into the game (Ferguson/Idah/Cannon).
- He seems to have a record of working hard to recruit players who qualify through their heritage, which should always be a focus of any Irish manager.
- He's clearly a good communicator going off his initial FAI interview, I'm looking forward to not having to switch over when the manager is being interviewed out of sheer embarrassment for the man being interviewed.

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Originally Posted by Fixer82

He's already had some of the Twitterati going after him for saying he'd love to get Mason Greenwood to declare for Jamaica

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However, this needs to be clarified and shut down at the press conference today. I saw a few tweets last night that I felt crossed the line from advocating for women's rights (fair enough) into feminist ****-stirring (not acceptable). I think it's fairly clear from the comments he made at the time that he was speaking on a football basis only and had clarified that it was for others/the Jamaican association to decide whether Greenwood would be an appropriate call up. So he needs to be clear on that when he's inevitably asked about it.

This is turning into a longer post than I intended but David Sneyd's article in the 42 this morning is interesting. It seems Heimir was not the man referenced in the "early April announcement" press conference (no surprise there, it was almost certainly Carsley), but he potentially has been in the frame for a few months and maybe isn't just someone they stumbled on last week.

Probably the person who comes out of all of this the worst is John O'Shea, who was apparently repeatedly told he would be interim manager only, which makes many of his interview and social media comments appear somewhat embarrassing in hindsight. He really did just hang around like a bad smell in the hope that the association would **** up badly enough that they'd be forced to let him take the job. Not a great look for him I would say.

I'm happy enough with his appointment in general. Has had some excellent success, but it hasn't all been plain sailing, about the best we could hope for, and if he does anything like what happened with Iceland, we'll all be happy enough. Sure things with Kenny didn't work, but I think him shifting a lot of our focus to underage will be important for the future, and Heimir seeming like someone who will do the same in terms of looking at the underage structures, that can't hurt, hopefully he'll take an interest in things domestically too. I still think all of that stuff is more critical to our long term future success than anything else.

I'm not a twitterati but the Greenwood stuff is something that bothers me, I would like him to clarify the situation early so it can be left alone and we can move on with our lives and enjoy something for once.

As for O' Shea, I don't think he comes out looking particularly badly tbh, he took a swing at getting the big job, but missed, at least he got a win, albiet pretty lucky and circumstantial, hopefully he gets a club job and starts building experience, I gather his club coaching exploits haven't actually been going all that incredibly well so far, he was never really qualified to be our manager (yet)

€650k a year plus WC qualification bonus. 17 month contract. Seems a generous salary.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...906739454.html

I'm surprised on the upside by this appointment and yes I'd like the Greenwood thing dealt with too. I don't think it's in the public domain why the charges were dropped. 24 hours begore the GIG play is awkward.

I think the salary is reasonable, it had been reported previously that the board had sanctioned an increase as they were struggling to get much interest on the original 500-550k that Kenny was on. In terms of his contract, an initial contract to the end of the WC campaign again looks reasonable, but with (in my view) expectations of the team being so low relative to the quality of some of the individual players available to us, even a semi-decent outcome (e.g. avoid Nations League relegation and top three in the qualification group) would probably be enough to see him kept on for the home Euros campaign.

Seems a decent appointment.

Has experience at international level, seems to be a pragmatist rather than wedded to a particular style of play at all costs.

Don't much care about the Greenwood thing tbh.

If he does want to get involved at domestic/underage level, that would be a positive move, albeit we'd need to see more about what his ideas are.

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Originally Posted by osarusan

Seems a decent appointment.

Don't much care about the Greenwood thing tbh.

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I don't want to make the thread about all this specifically but, In the week we have the Women's Soccer Abuse revelations, it's something we could do without.

At the very least I can tell you that my 28 yr old football playing sister messaged me, and it was the very first thing she brought up about him.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I don't think it's in the public domain why the charges were dropped. 24 hours begore the GIG play is awkward.

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Because the key witness decided to refuse to cooperate and police felt without her cooperation, the chance of getting a conviction was very slim.

Harriet Robson published horrific and damning audio and photos. Within hours, her father was giving the daily mail an interview where he was trying to protect Mason (seeing his cash cow disappear?). Mason is charged with rape, assault and coercive control.

A year later the charges are dropped as Harriet refuses to cooperate with police, social media accounts who claim to have insights claim that a significant financial settlement was reached, brokered through Mason’s agent (and Mason) and her father (and her), so that she would no longer cooperate with investigation.

This provided the groundwork for a reconciliation between the couple (not uncommon in situations of abuse).

As a rule of thumb, I think innocent until proven guilty is the yard stick I’d use - but there are situations where the initial evidence is so damning and irrefutable that you can cast judgement of the courts for failing to do so.

The HH quote is isn’t good at all, although there’s a bit more nuance in the full quote. I don’t see how anyone could listen to the audio and then give it - it spends a whole lot of time talking about poor Mason and making him seem like a victim…

“ I’m not an expert in this.I just look at the person. I think what he has gone through in the year and a half since it happened is worse than I can imagine, being in the press and on social media. I can only imagine what he has been going through. The case went through stages and the case was dropped, so it’s not up to me or anyone else to judge him on that. It was no less a person than Jesus Christ who said, those who are without sin should throw the first stone. Whatever happened, everybody at least deserves a second chance. And he knows that all eyes are on him. So it’s a big pressure and I am happy for the player that he is coming back because it is probably a trauma. It’s difficult to come (back) from, so I give him my support at least. He must have a strong mentality to start to play again and start to play so well.”

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Originally Posted by Acornvilla

I don't want to make the thread about all this specifically but, In the week we have the Women's Soccer Abuse revelations, it's something we could do without.

At the very least I can tell you that my 28 yr old football playing sister messaged me, and it was the very first thing she brought up about him.

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It's not a good look and I'd really hope he clarifies his position on it during his upcoming press conference.

On a week where the FAI are dealing with serious historical abuse allegations in the women's game, it's important the senior men's manager clarifies comments made in regards Greenwood.

If the FAI has any remotely compentent media staff, he'll be coached with a suitable answer and it'll amount to little enough. But then, they kept leaving Kenny flounder on camera.

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Originally Posted by Eirambler

However, this needs to be clarified and shut down at the press conference today. I saw a few tweets last night that I felt crossed the line from advocating for women's rights (fair enough) into feminist ****-stirring (not acceptable). I think it's fairly clear from the comments he made at the time that he was speaking on a football basis only and had clarified that it was for others/the Jamaican association to decide whether Greenwood would be an appropriate call up. So he needs to be clear on that when he's inevitably asked about it.

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Talking specifically about this - Heimir Hallgrímsson went a lot further than you are suggesting in his defence of Greenwood (a player who has a litany of abuse allegations) - he expressed sympathy for Greenwood and his treatment - including suggeting that he suffered 'trauma' as a result, and then trotted out the usual 'let him without sin cast the first stone' and 'everybody deserves a second chance' as a justification for talking to him about switching to Jamaica.

I also think if I was someone who historically had 4 of my Icelandic squad accused of rape, sexual assault or child sex offences - I’d be very careful and cautious as to how my words came across around the issue of rape and domestic violence

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Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant

Talking specifically about this - Heimir Hallgrímsson went a lot further than you are suggesting in his defence of Greenwood (a player who has a litany of abuse allegations) - he expressed sympathy for Greenwood and his treatment - including suggeting that he suffered 'trauma' as a result, and then trotted out the usual 'let him without sin cast the first stone' and 'everybody deserves a second chance' as a justification for talking to him about switching to Jamaica.

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It's disappointing to hear. Not doubting you, but do you have a source on that?

And for everyone more generally: these kinds of discussions can get fractious. Please play the ball and not the man and avoid heated language.

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Originally Posted by John83

Not doubting you, but do you have a source on that?

And for everyone more generally: these kinds of discussions can get fractious. Please play the ball and not the man and avoid heated language.

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His quote is in my post above

Just in case anyone else is looking for it, here's the NYT for example: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/531...-hallgrimsson/ Reader view on firefox circumvents their soft paywall.

On a more general comment about his potential as a manager - the appointment is a bit out of leftfield and there is nothing wrong with that.

His post - 2016 record with Iceland is good - there was a small bit of luck involved, but everyone needs that. Particularly impressive from that qualification stage was the fact that Iceland won all five home games - and didn't concede in four of them (they were very lucky against Finland - losing 1-2 for most of the game before scoring twice in injury time). The WC group stage was not so good - but for smaller countries things can go very wrong in the finals of international competitions.

His time in Qatar shows nothing of consequence

With Jamaica he did well in the qualifying rounds - but once up against the bigger countries things do not go so well. It is clear he reached the limit of what he could achieve with Jamaica. Whether he can take a step up with Ireland we will have to wait an see.

As for his trawling for Jamaican diaspora - well there was a massive trawl - Hallgrimsson used 22 English born players in just under two years - and, yes, he was responsible for getting some of them to commit. But it was a massive trawl that hit journeymen pros and youth team players alike, it was something that was never done before which meant that there was a large pool of players to dip into. That is not the case with Ireland - youth team players with potential Irish connections are well monitored and selected for Irish under-age teams if they show an interest. Hallgrimsson is not going to find a well of players to tap into over and above what is already known. Could he possibly induce the likes of Dewsbury-Hall to opt for Ireland? - it would be great if he could - but it should be looked at in terms of a big bonus, rather than something that we think will happen.

Now - the one thing that we don't know - and there is little evidence for it - is how Hallgrimsson works with developing young players - we have largely a young squad and a lot of potential at underage level - and that would be important (which is why the likes of Carsley and Barry-Murphy were attractive).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John83

It's disappointing to hear. Not doubting you, but do you have a source on that?

And for everyone more generally: these kinds of discussions can get fractious. Please play the ball and not the man and avoid heated language.

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You found the source - the NYT - I was typing up another comment before adding it.

Yes these kinds of discussions can get fractious - unfortunately the ball and the man are one and the same in these situations - and I would suggest that I didn't use any heated language and simply outlined the facts.

The warning was preemptive because of the tendancy of the Sagnol discussion to require moderation, and not directed specifically at you.

Does Big H have a Maurice Setters ?

Any word on Big H's coaching team ?

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Originally Posted by elatedscum

I also think if I was someone who historically had 4 of my Icelandic squad accused of rape, sexual assault or child sex offences - I’d be very careful and cautious as to how my words came across around the issue of rape and domestic violence

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I wasn't aware of the scale of these - and after having a look - this is far more serious than the Greenwood case. It is pretty clear that there was a culture within the Icelandic international squad right throughout the 2010s that turned a blind eye to sexual violence by players. It was not one incident - but a series of incidents involving multiple members of the Icelandic squad at different times.

Given that the entire board of the Icelandic FA resigned in 2021 over its handling of allegations - it would be a major case of burying the head in the sand if the FAI weren't aware of what was going on - and at the very least discussed the situation with Heimir Hallgrímsson about his role in all of this before appointing him.

Can Geysir comment on that?