ESL 2.0 vs Greatest League in the World

(Hope this is not the wrong section - Mods please move/delete if appropriate)

A report in today's Daily Telegraph says that the last 3 European Super League holdouts, Juve, Barca and Real Madrid, are planning to relaunch an amended version of their ESL, with details to be revealed next Thursday.

The key difference from the original idea is that they will remove the idea of permanent members and replace it with traditional domestic league qualification.They also hint that state-owned clubs could be excluded (eg Man City, PSG), since conventionally owned clubs (eg Juve, Barca, Real) cannot compete on fair terms.

But one further element caught my eye. According to the DT:

The ESL three claim that they will promote growth in countries that are not home to traditional club powerhouses, "for example Dublin or Luxembourg - and their inhabitants - will finally be entitled to have access to premium league football." [my emphasis]

More here: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...d-plot-closed/

Dublin City Dons anyone?

Irish Sea FC?

I wonder what kind of proposal they can make that could possibly get across the huge groundswell of anger the first one generated? There's already a competition where domestic leagues results get you European football. There's three as it happens! A new European Cup where the bosses of Juve, Barca and Real are calling the shots doesn't really appeal that much over UEFA.

In regards the mention of Dublin, perhaps the idea will be that winners of domestic leagues go automatically in with the "big" teams without need for qualification? That would be an attraction for some for sure, but also self-defeating: watching Shams or Dudelange getting walloped by Real Madrid twice a year isn't as exciting as it might sound.

I think the mention of Dublin and Luxembourg can be interpreted in different ways. My suspicion would be that they won't bother getting an Irish or Luxembourgish club into the competition, but merely move a few matches there. If they move a handful of matches each year to Dublin, they'll claim that this gives Dublin people "access to premium league football". Job done.

The Telegraph article is behind a paywall, but reading around there's rumoured draft plans of franchise clubs being created alright. There seems to be so many obstacles against such an idea - where would they play/potential payer bans from international competition/actually generating any interest from fans already happy to follow along with English clubs on TV - that it seems very fanciful.

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Originally Posted by sidewayspasser

I think the mention of Dublin and Luxembourg can be interpreted in different ways. My suspicion would be that they won't bother getting an Irish or Luxembourgish club into the competition, but merely move a few matches there. If they move a handful of matches each year to Dublin, they'll claim that this gives Dublin people "access to premium league football". Job done.

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Pretty much how i see it too

Re Dublin and Luxembourg etc, imo this could just be the usual marketing flim-flam to show what a jolly nice, inclusive bunch they really are etc. So that if/when the ESL were ever to get off the ground, it would conveniently get forgotten.

I mean, why would other big clubs allow extra ESL places to newly made-up clubs etc, when they themselves would risk losing their own place in the event of relegation?

Alternatively, if it's just a case of staging some games in cities which don't have an ESL member of their own, why would fans of Juve or Barca stand idly by while "home" games were played elsewhere? (When the English PL suggested playing "Game 39" abroad, opposition soon put a stop to it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_39).

And why would the ESL pay rent to the AVIVA, thereby reducing their own revenue? While the biggest stadium in Luxembourg is the new 10k National Stadium.

Alternatively I can only think that it might be a (pretty desperate) attempt to gain some sort of support from the FAI or Luxembourg FA in the ESL's battle with UEFA?

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Re Dublin and Luxembourg etc, imo this could just be the usual marketing flim-flam to show what a jolly nice, inclusive bunch they really are etc. So that if/when the ESL were ever to get off the ground, it would conveniently get forgotten.

I mean, why would other big clubs allow extra ESL places to newly made-up clubs etc, when they themselves would risk losing their own place in the event of relegation?

Alternatively, if it's just a case of staging some games in cities which don't have an ESL member of their own, why would fans of Juve or Barca stand idly by while "home" games were played elsewhere? (When the English PL suggested playing "Game 39" abroad, opposition soon put a stop to it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_39).

And why would the ESL pay rent to the AVIVA, thereby reducing their own revenue? While the biggest stadium in Luxembourg is the new 10k National Stadium.

Alternatively I can only think that it might be a (pretty desperate) attempt to gain some sort of support from the FAI or Luxembourg FA in the ESL's battle with UEFA?

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I mean IRE and LUX wonder what it could be?

They looked next year's access list picked the top two countries that haven't qualified for the group stage, realised LIE don't have a league and don't compete in the in the CLQ.

Which is a shame, because generally they're top of the one other list they looked at - GDP.

When they cross referenced the two lists they eliminated BOS, cos they're nowhere near the top 10 on the second list.


This idea is even more pie in the sky than the first. Still no salary caps, but keep those big boys away :?

I mean UEFA's response (proposed format from 2024) is marginally better. But both are paying lip service to developing football in smaller nations, while cynically grabbing (or attempting to grab) the cash.

Without some jeopardy for the bigger clubs what's the point. It make zero fecking odds to us in terms of qualification, but we're not far off a situation like Man Utd finishing just above the relegation zone, but they're the highest uefa ranked club that didn't qualify for europe - put them in the CL.

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Originally Posted by A N Mouse

I
I mean UEFA's response (proposed format from 2024) is marginally better. But both are paying lip service to developing football in smaller nations, while cynically grabbing (or attempting to grab) the cash.

Without some jeopardy for the bigger clubs what's the point. It make zero fecking odds to us in terms of qualification, but we're not far off a situation like Man Utd finishing just above the relegation zone, but they're the highest uefa ranked club that didn't qualify for europe - put them in the CL.

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UEFA are in a bind.

Otoh, the vast bulk of their European club revenues come from TV companies and sponsors etc, who are really only interested in the big clubs from the big leagues. And those clubs are demanding that ever more of that money be paid to them - and to hell with the rest.

Oto, UEFA has to represent 53 Member Associations, each of whom has an equal vote. And naturally enough, those Associations are demanding their fair share from the pot, too.

The problem is that in trying to please both sides, if UEFA get it wrong, they'll end up pleasing neither.

Meanwhile, clubs in Spain and Italy are so skint that they're desperate, and can't/won't wait to get a few more quid from UEFA, esp while the English Premier League forges ahead, meaning they need to strike out on their own right now.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

UEFA are in a bind.

Otoh, the vast bulk of their European club revenues come from TV companies and sponsors etc, who are really only interested in the big clubs from the big leagues. And those clubs are demanding that ever more of that money be paid to them - and to hell with the rest.

Oto, UEFA has to represent 53 Member Associations, each of whom has an equal vote. And naturally enough, those Associations are demanding their fair share from the pot, too.

The problem is that in trying to please both sides, if UEFA get it wrong, they'll end up pleasing neither.

Meanwhile, clubs in Spain and Italy are so skint that they're desperate, and can't/won't wait to get a few more quid from UEFA, esp while the English Premier League forges ahead, meaning they need to strike out on their own right now.

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There a tightrope for UEFA to walk, but given the fan response last time I'd say they hold the cards.

I've said it before - the proposed UEFA format, plus the hints of support for regional supra-national leagues leads me to believe a continental league is the endgame.

Course that's more than a decade out. Meanwhile these clubs' hubris risks an existential crisis in European football because they can't keep up with the financial arms race they started.

Could be something like the winners of the lowest ten leagues go into a play off for the last couple of places in the super league sort of thing so they have a pyramid as such and we are all in the SUPER league

No white smoke today after oprevious reports. Perhaps the Ukraine news has made them second-guess the timing of the announcement?

There were secondhand reports in a number of places crediting Voxpopulai in Spain earlier that it would be a ten-team affair with Arsenal and Spurs removed from the original 12, but that looks like it might have been fake news.

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Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter

No white smoke today after oprevious reports. Perhaps the Ukraine news has made them second-guess the timing of the announcement?

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Meanwhile, UEFA seem to have stolen a march on them:

https://griffinpark.org/index.php?at...c4-jpeg.30520/

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Meanwhile, UEFA seem to have stolen a march on them:

https://griffinpark.org/index.php?at...c4-jpeg.30520/

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Seems three amigos may have been trying to steal uefa's thunder on this one, bit of a damp squib.

Agnelii (juve president?) was last speaker at football conference in London, something was expected but doesn't seem to have let much slip. Only what can be gleaned from articles.

Seems any kind of announcement would be premature, they're waiting on outcome of case they're taking to european court about uefa being a monopoly. So nothing to see here for up to two years. And seem to be admitting that that's the end if they lose the case.

Also, contradictory statements about english clubs? They'd start without them, and 11 of the 12 original clubs are bound to participate by contract.

Andrea Agnelli says Super League ‘not a failure’ as Aleksander Ceferin and Javier Tebas criticise Juventus chairman - Eurosport
European Super League: A 'nonsense idea' but is it still possible without English clubs? - BBC Sport
Real Madrid, Barcelona and Juventus 'lie more than Vladimir Putin', says LaLiga president who reveals trio plan new European Super League (talksport.com)
European Super League: 11 of 12 founder clubs still under contractual obligation (football.co.uk)

Oh, and ICYMI the new CL format - the two highest uefa ranked clubs who didn't qualify, through domestic competition, getting into CL looks like being a thing

If those article miss anything out, my apologies, I can't seem to find the most detailed one i read (needed incognito mode to read).

A bump for this thread. Seems there has been a relaunch for this: https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/st...04978363174912


This stuff is a massively big deal - it is a basically coup attempt by Real Madrid, Barca and Juve against UEFA and the National Federations for football Governance. They want the money that is filitered down to the 1000s of professional teams in Europe all for themselves.


I wish UEFA would just call their bluff and kick these clubs out of European Competitions.

New concept is a multi-division league system with up to 80 clubs (with 14 "guaranteed" games, I presume that's groups of eight?): https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2023...with-new-plan/

They couldn't even keep a fraction of that number onside the first time, where are they going to get more?

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

(Hope this is not the wrong section - Mods please move/delete if appropriate)

A report in today's Daily Telegraph says that the last 3 European Super League holdouts, Juve, Barca and Real Madrid, are planning to relaunch an amended version of their ESL, with details to be revealed next Thursday.

The key difference from the original idea is that they will remove the idea of permanent members and replace it with traditional domestic league qualification.They also hint that state-owned clubs could be excluded (eg Man City, PSG), since conventionally owned clubs (eg Juve, Barca, Real) cannot compete on fair terms.

But one further element caught my eye. According to the DT:

The ESL three claim that they will promote growth in countries that are not home to traditional club powerhouses, "for example Dublin or Luxembourg - and their inhabitants - will finally be entitled to have access to premium league football." [my emphasis]

More here: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...d-plot-closed/

Dublin City Dons anyone?

Irish Sea FC?

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Dublin being a country suggests that their grasp of rudimentary geography is not the sharpest :D

How long before Shamrock Rovers start getting notions and fancy themselves as being part of this breakaway big boys club ?

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Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

Dublin being a country suggests that their grasp of rudimentary geography is not the sharpest :D

How long before Shamrock Rovers start getting notions and fancy themselves as being part of this breakaway big boys club ?

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Keep up at the back ; we already have those notions aka natural evolution so goes with out saying we’ll be only viable option ?

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Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter

New concept is a multi-division league system with up to 80 clubs (with 14 "guaranteed" games, I presume that's groups of eight?): https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2023...with-new-plan/

They couldn't even keep a fraction of that number onside the first time, where are they going to get more?

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Pure desperation.

After their original fiasco, they simply won't get any big English club to sign up for it. Nor would German clubs ever get it past their fans. While PSG are/were dead-set against it from the outset, and they must have some pull over the other French clubs, no? Meaning that without major clubs from those three countries, where are they going to get 80 clubs* of any great standing for ESL2?

And all that's dependant upon them first winning their pending Court battle with UEFA, which is looking very doubtful.


* - Tbf, Shams might hope to sneak in there somewhere is the 70's perhaps? :)

if there was a chance of joining a league like this than you can be 100% sure stadium standards would be a prerequisite
If you filled in the corners of Tallaght Stadium with safe standing i reckon you could get the attendance up to the 4 stands 10000 and 1250-1500 in each corner making total capacity 15/16k. Brentfords stadium capacity is only 17500 so not a million miles away.

Pipe dream stuff though.
It would have to be a Dublin club either way to make sure there were enough "customer units" to sell stuff to.