Statement: meeting between Independent Saints SC and St.Pats Ath

from the
IS website

very interesting read IMO

Following the revelations during the week about irregularities with the registration of Charles Mbabazi Livingstone, Independent Saints urgently sought a meeting with the officials of St.Patricks Athletic FC to discuss the situation.

Following a protracted series of phone-calls over the last few days the meeting finally took place, between myself and Dermot Looney for IS and Pat Dolan for the Club, in Dermot’s house last night, Sunday 24th March. Aisling Looney was also present. Pat had previously conducted a training session with the team yesterday morning and then been involved in a meeting with other club officials all afternoon and all evening; as a result, he did not get to Dermot’s house until nearly midnight. The meeting ended at roughly 1:45am. I think it’s worth stressing the time factor, as (a) it demonstrates the length to which Pat was prepared to go to make himself available to us and (b) the late hour probably meant that none of us were as sharp-witted as we might otherwise have been.

A meeting of the IS Committee on Thursday 21st March had agreed a list of questions which we wished to put to the Club. We stressed and made it clear to Pat at the outset that we would not be bound by anything presented to us as being "in confidence" or "off the record" but that we intended to make public the response of the Club to the questions, including "no comment"-type responses. We therefore asked him not to tell us anything that we didn’t want going into the public domain via our website.

The questions and Pat’s answers were as follows (the IS Committee questions in italics). Anything in inverted commas is a direct quote, everything else is from my notes and so should not be regarded as completely verbatim. I don’t know shorthand and too much was said over the course of nearly two hours for me to be able to write it all down; however, I believe the main points are all here. By and large, any reference to “the Club” means Pats officials rather than the playing staff, or else St.Patricks Athletic in general.

1. Was the registration status of all Saint Patrick's Athletic FC players checked on August 30th, when the Club was informed that Paul Marney was not properly registered?
Pat initially replied that the registration issue was subjudice. We said that our understanding of the term “subjudice” was that it meant there were actual court proceedings pending, rather than that the matter was in the hands of the Club’s solicitors with court proceeding maybe to follow. If the latter was the case, then the “subjudice” argument didn’t apply. Pat accepted this argument, and replied that “Yes, the status of all players was checked”.

2. If so, were any other discrepancies noticed? If discrepancies were noticed, what action was taken? Who took this action?
Pat did not reply directly to these questions, but in dealing with subsequent questions, he did address the issues raised.

3. On what date was Babaz originally registered for the 2001/2002 season? If the date was after the kick off date of August 10th, why was he played in all games up to September 12th?
“Under the terms of his contract, Babaz was first registered in December 2000, then re-registered in January 2000.”

4. When was the discrepancy in Babaz's registration first noticed?
“I believe in September”

5. What was the discrepancy?
On the registration form, the registration was mistakenly filled in as being until the end of the 2000/2001 season.

6. Who noticed it?
Roy Dooney knew in September. Pat and Tim O’Flaherty only found out last Tuesday.

7. Was there a problem with the International Clearance Cert for Babaz to play?
For a while there was an ongoing problem with the certificate, due to the complicated situation around Babaz’s transfer. At one stage there was even a question of whether the certificate had been forged. However, FIFA subsequently accepted that the contract between the Club and Babaz was valid and accepted that the certificate was genuine.

8. Can the Club explain how the FAI only received Babaz's registration on September 12th? Had it been submitted by any representative of the Club in the days immediately preceding September 12th? If so, by whom?
Pat said “The people involved in registrations at the Club took a course of action that they felt was in the best interests of the Club.” Following the revelation of the irregularity over Paul Marney’s registration, the Club made enquiries to see that all was in order with all the other players’ registrations. Pat declined to name names as to who submitted the form for Babaz in September, as he didn’t want to make anyone the scapegoat over this.
I put it to Pat that someone in the Club must have felt there was a problem over Babaz’s registration for the “Sept. 12th form” to have been submitted. Furthermore, if he and Tim only found about this last Tuesday while someone else knew last September, at the very least it pointed to a severe problem with communications within the Club – surely whoever sent in the form should have drawn Pat’s attention to the situation? Pat disagreed with this and repeated that he was satisfied that the people involved had carried out a course of action they felt was in the best interests of the Club.

9. The explanation given for Paul Marney's non-registration was that the letter had presumably got lost in the post after having being posted unregistered. Is this explanation correct?
“Yes, absolutely. Either that or it was taken out of the FAI.”

10. At the Fans Forum at Richmond Park on September 28th, Phil Mooney, as Club Secretary, accepted responsibility for Paul Marney's non-registration, though he said he wasn't personally involved in the registration. Who was?
As before, Pat declined to name names.

11. At the Fans Forum, a supporter asked if any more players had been improperly registered. Club Secretary Phil Mooney replied that none had. Given that the Club was aware of the Babaz situation, why did Mr. Mooney say this, and why did none of the other Club Representatives correct him on this misinformation?
Pat said “You would have to ask Phil Mooney that”. He also said to bear in mind that there was considerable confusion at the time over the Babaz situation.

12. Why were we told at the Fans Forum, and subsequently through various media reports, that Paul Marney's non-registration was a one-off technical breach when the Club knew that this wasn't the case?
“It is basically one incident, not two. It’s one case and the same principles apply.”

13. Have all players except Paul Marney and Charles Mbabazi Livingstone been properly registered for every game they played in this season?
“I would have answered ‘Yes’ before last Tuesday. When people have an understanding that something has been done, if they think it has, then they act on that basis.”

14. The failure to properly register players has placed an enormous burden upon all the playing staff this season, in particular Paul and now Charlie. What assurances can the Club give the current squad, and any player we may intend to sign in the future, that their registrations will be processed correctly?
15. It is now almost 7 months since the original problem with Paul Marney's registration was brought to the Club's attention. What procedures have the Club implemented to prevent a recurrence?
“We checked after the problems with Paul’s registration came to light that everything was in order. Until all the rules and all the ambiguities around them are sorted out, we have to take responsibility, but people have to be fair about it.”

16. If the League investigation finds that the non-registration of Babaz was due entirely or in part to irregularities within Saint Patrick's Athletic FC, will the relevant Club officials be asked to resign or be sacked?
“If people act consistently for the best reasons, you have to look at their overall responsibility and if they act in the Club’s best interests. That [i.e. asking for resignations or sacking – KG] wouldn’t be my decision, because we try to act collectively as a group.” Pat stressed that he felt there was no way the blame could be laid entirely on the Club, that Roy Dooney should have dealt with it. However, he said “If people want to have a pop at Pat Dolan personally, it’s probably good because it allows the Club to move on and move forward.” I think by this he meant that if all the reaction and negativity was directed at him personally, then it took some of the heat off other people.

That was the end of the IS Committee questions.

tbc..

We then began talking in general about the team and the way in which they have performed this season. I made the point that if the 15-point deduction stands, it could well end up that the best team in the league would not be the Champions of the League. Pat said “If that happens, football is finished.” He maintained that there was no intent to deceive on the part of the Club – here he contrasted St.Pats’ conduct with Roddy Collins’ allegations in yesterday’s News of the World. He said this whole affair has totally overshadowed the achievement and commitment of the players this year. As an example, he said Willie Burke had suffered a broken nose in an incident in the second half of the Rovers match last Friday, but had insisted (against the advice of the physio) on playing on for the remainder of the game.

There was then some general discussion on the role of supporters vis-à-vis the Club. I told him that IS would continue to give 100% backing to the players, but that we had the right to be critical – in a balanced way – of the actions of Club officials if we felt they deserved it.

He asked for an example and I told him that in my own personal opinion, the reactions of himself and Tim to last Tuesday’s revelations about Babaz was all wrong, that instead of pointing the finger elsewhere and accusing others of a witchhunt (even if it was the case), he should have made sure St.Pats’ own house was in order first.

I said I felt he had handled this season’s off-pitch controversies badly in public, the other major one being the merger. I pointed that there has been less upset over this since the fans’ forum last September, mainly because fans’ fears had been addressed to an extent; Pat generally agreed with this.

I asked him was there any significance in the fact that, in his programme notes for last Friday’s match, he referred to “St.Patricks Athletic” rather than to “St.Pats / St.Francis” or any of the other variations that have previously been used. Pat’s response was that “Things evolve”. He stressed that the “Dublin Saints” idea had been conceived prior to the merger, in direct response to the appearance of “Dublin City”, and with an eye on any possible future European impact. He said it was also beneficial in terms of having something to offer to St.Francis while agreeing the merger.

I asked Pat about the role of Alan Duncan in the Club. He replied that Alan Duncan has not been involved with St.Pats since the night of the Shelbourne game in Tolka back in January. While he said there was no fall-out between him and Alan Duncan, he referred to some kind of scene in the dressing room afterwards (he didn’t give details).

I asked him was he aware of the allegations – and I stressed that they were anonymous allegations that had not been substantiated – that Alan Duncan was involved in a chain of contact that ultimately led to Ollie Byrne requesting to see Babaz’ registration form. Pat declined to comment on the record about that.

Going back to the registration issue, I put it to Pat that if the Club had done the admin. work properly and filled in the forms 100% correctly, then none of all this would have happened. He disagreed. I said that if there was nothing irregular for Ollie Byrne to find, then he could have hunted about to his heart’s content. Pat continued to disagree, saying pointedly that he would have found something. As he had earlier made reference to wholesale technical breaches of the rules across the whole League (and not just the rules on registrations), my interpretation is that St.Pats may have committed similar breaches.

At this stage, it was 1:45am so we finished the meeting.

In general I would say the tone of the meeting was open and honest and while there was mutual criticism, no-one got unnecessarily nasty. As I said at the start, the fact that Pat was prepared to meet us at that hour when he also had to prepare for tonight’s match speaks volumes. I know the tension and upset that the whole registration saga has caused among fans, especially recently, so I can only guess at the appalling stress that Pat must be under.

Finally, Independent Saints will continue to support the St.Pats team completely and utterly. There are three games to play and as far as we are concerned, if Pats win two of those, it makes us the best team in the League this season, regardless of where the championship ends up.

Kieran Glennon
PRO, Independent Saints SC