off topic

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Originally Posted by John83

This is disinformation. The vaccines have now completed all normal phases of vaccine testing. You have no right to spread bull**** that will affect public health.

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In what period of time. Nothing like this has ever been done before.

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Originally Posted by John83

The best information. :rolleyes:

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So, you think people should not get the best information and inform themselves = = Not normal thinking for anything.

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Originally Posted by Eminence Grise

Nobody has been made get the vaccine in Ireland. Pat Kenny was ranting last week about the number of healthcare workers who declined it. Of course people have a right to refuse (believers in some faiths can refuse capsules made with pig gelatin, for instance; Jehovah's Witnesses refuse blood transfusions for their children - but there is compulsion there because court orders are sought and made to protect the rights of the minor) but they also have a responsibility to refuse because they are making an informed judgement, not spouting anti-vax bull-plop.

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This is maybe worth splitting into another thread - but I think it's worth pointing out a key difference between refusing a blood transfusion and refusing a vaccine. The former only affects you (well, and your immediately family I guess), but the latter affects society as a whole, because vaccines rely on large-scale uptake to be effective. So refusing a vaccine - for no good reason, and I haven't seen one as yet - is far more selfish than refusing a blood transfusion on religious grounds (which is fairly silly tbh, but that's a third thread)

Let’s say hypothetically it turned out that something was wrong with these vaccines ( apparently unlikely ) what would you say to some one who did not want to take the vaccine but was forced to take the vaccine. I am only arguing for Peoples right to choose. it shouldn’t even be controversial.

I would say "Why are you engaging in purely hypothetical arguments which don't take into account testing which has been done? And why are you ignoring the flip side of the argument, which is that we know covid is a nasty illness which has killed or had long-term health impacts in millions around the world, and the vaccine is evidently very helpful in stopping that?"

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I would say "Why are you engaging in purely hypothetical arguments which don't take into account testing which has been done? And why are you ignoring the flip side of the argument, which is that we know covid is a nasty illness which has killed or had long-term health impacts in millions around the world, and the vaccine is evidently very helpful in stopping that?"

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For all that I respect human beings right to choose.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I would say "Why are you engaging in purely hypothetical arguments which don't take into account testing which has been done? And why are you ignoring the flip side of the argument, which is that we know covid is a nasty illness which has killed or had long-term health impacts in millions around the world, and the vaccine is evidently very helpful in stopping that?"

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I was making a more general point about individual right and bodily integrity than societal implications (and the transfusions was about parents refusing them for their kids, who don't have a say in the matter) but spin away if you like. I'm going to try to stay on track here in the meantime.

I wonder if Ronaldo will claim a human right to bodily integrity after Duffy clatters him a few times? Might be shades of Roy Keane tackling Marc Overmars in '01 - the Dutch forward-line went into voluntary quarantine in the midfield after it, iirc.;)

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Originally Posted by Eminence Grise

I was making a more general point about individual right and bodily integrity than societal implications (and the transfusions was about parents refusing them for their kids, who don't have a say in the matter) but spin away if you like.

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No spin - just pointing out a relevant difference. I think it's an important one too, given that when seanfhear posts -

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

For all that I respect human beings right to choose.

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- it's clear that he's still making no consideration of the societal impact of anti-vax stances for everyone, not just for the individual.

Also, I've reported these posts and hopefully John83 will move soon and we can get back to worrying about who's going to stop Ronaldo...