Kerr Good Man-Manager - Poor Tactician??

New to this Forum, being an Irish Fan for manys a year, Like the rest of you I was gutted by The Irish Result on Saturday Night against a mediocre Israeli side, suffice to say it ruined my bloody weekend... but anyway the point in hand is as per the title of this thread, I'll start by first accentuating the positives, Kerr as an individual seems to have the respect of all the players in the squad from those he nurtured at youth level ( Reid, Duffer, Robbie etc..) and the already established seniors (Kilbane, Cunningham, Given etc..) and his defining moment so far as manager was getting Roy Keane back into the squad.. (the rambling discontents of Ian Harte and Stephen Reid in the media is a slight concern but thats another days argument) His attention to detail also is very encouraging and highly professional , training facilities, players DVDs, all is well in this area which in Management is perhaps the preface to the main body of work which is the tactics and management of the team over 90 minutes.
I don't wish to jump on the Kerr bashing bandwagon just yet, but I have nagging concerns that came to the surface more after Saturday nite, that is Kerrs team on the strength of this campaign and his charge of the second partof the last campaign seem at times to be playing without any real focus or direction. Against Russia in Lansdowne we went a goal up and then retreated to a holding game which as a spectle was poor and resulted in Russia scoring, in Albania a holding game resulted in another boring affair with a 0-0 result and worse was to follow in that disaster in Basle which we lost 2-0, when we had no direction no plan B ok so we couldn't play Kerrs game here i.e Nick a goal early then defend with your life by keeping possession in middle of the park and praying that the percentage game would work out for you and the clock would run down (Truly one of the lowest points in Irish Football for manys a year) where was the fight and spirit that night where were the tactical options, Kerr just couldn't inject the belief into his players like say Martin O'Neill can and does on a regular basis.

In our more recent campaign in Basle i was again in horror of the tactics Brain Kerr elected to use, after nicking the early goal we again invited the swiss to come at us we again surrendered the initiative and invited a average side to come at us, "keep the ball in midfield but whatever you do don't attack them this is risky! mentality" for chrissake we have the players!!!. Paris was a good note and thought that Basle was just a temporary blip in Kerrs management learning curve, but what happened in Israel as you know was for want of better phrase "a managerial and tactical screw-up". What was said in the dressing at halftime we will never know, but the preformance in the second-half spoke volumes,, "Hold what you got don't risk anything and hopeful the percentage game will favour us" Rubbish, we could of beat this team 3-0 if we had more direction and focus, the sight of steve Finnan bombing forward with 20 minutes to go with Duffer and Robbie ahead of him, then inexplicably stopping putting his foot on the ball and passing it backwards to Roy Keane was perhaps the defining moment of the game.

So here we are another friendly which we are bound to win comfortably and learn little (Friendlies are almost pointless), but the question remains have we progressed in COMPETITIVE FIXTURES since Basle 2003 and when can we do like Sweden done at the weekend and go out against a team away from home and win with comfort (Bulgaria 0 - Sweden 3). The big question remains does Brian Kerr really belief in not only the players but in himself. I for one hope so, I hope never to again see the likes of Basle mark ;1 Basle mark 2 and Tel Aviv with this current talented crop of players... On a positive note i think that we will make Germany and lessons have been learned.

PS ( We gotta sort out those bloody setpieces soon !!!)

Very detailed post but have a look at the things Roy Keane, Kenny Cunningham, Shay Given, Kevin Kilbane and Kerr himself have been saying. It was not his plan to hold the ball. They are all disappointed they didn't get forward as much as they should have. Anyway, off to watch the match...

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

Very detailed post but have a look at the things Roy Keane, Kenny Cunningham, Shay Given, Kevin Kilbane and Kerr himself have been saying. It was not his plan to hold the ball. They are all disappointed they didn't get forward as much as they should have. Anyway, off to watch the match...

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Have you ever played football, when have you said at the end of a game I was disappointed we didn't get forward much, all you gotta do is get into the opponents half and have a shot at goal, I think that is the objective of the game...

If the team set out with the correct objectives(set by the manager) then we would have won that game..

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Originally Posted by Condex

Have you ever played football, when have you said at the end of a game I was disappointed we didn't get forward much, all you gotta do is get into the opponents half and have a shot at goal, I think that is the objective of the game...

If the team set out with the correct objectives(set by the manager) then we would have won that game..

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I only said what I did because people were blaming Kerr that we didn't go forward. Why would Given Cunningham, Keane, Kilbane and Kerr himself say they didn't get forward enough if it was down to Kerr's instructions to sit back? People who have played the game should no that a lot of the time psychology actually plays more of a part in a match than the ability of the team. I think tonights match tonight proves the above quote wrong anyway. We got forward plenty of times but we just don't have enough creativity.

Anyway, I'm not backing Kerr up anymore after tonights match. Really disappointed in him. Too stubborn and all he really cared about was the result. Probably change my mind tomorrow though which is why I don't really post much straight after games.

Firstly Brian kerr is a good manager. He is probably one of the best we have had so far. Jack Charlton didnt have to worry about what happens when we go 1 up because it was just boot it long. Mc Carthy made some dreadful errors and tatical decisons. Its just that everyones expectation level has been lifted a great deal after Saipain and the new FAI(muppet show) and Kerr.

Kerr is the best man for the job.

The main problem with Ireland is the whole state of affairs regarding soccer. We have the Eircom League which is part time mostly and the standard of facilities, training regiemes, coaches, contracts, etc etc is extremely poor. We have no real academy (or even proper soccer schools) that can develop strikers who have all the ability.

We rely on the british league to produce our players. But it cant be relied on to develop people like Robbie etc.

I could go on forever about this. But if we dont get a proper continetal style approach we will be simply left behind.

Struggling against weaker teams should indicate that there is something seriously wrong with irish soccer.

Kerr is doing a fantastic job with the 3rd world resources we have.

A little from column A and alot from column B at the moment...

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Originally Posted by Reality Bites

Kerr as an individual seems to have the respect of all the players in the squad from those he nurtured at youth level ( Reid, Duffer, Robbie etc..) and the already established seniors (Kilbane, Cunningham, Given etc..) and his defining moment so far as manager was getting Roy Keane back into the squad.

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Apperances can be deceptive.

Seems to have and having are not quite the same and from what I understand that so called respect is far from the truth. ( See Duff's recent Interview in a certain Sunday newspaper and read between the lines ;) )

Maybe now the facts of the near mutiny last March will now come to the fore despite all the spinning at the time particularily that which occured on 2/3 April following the Czech Rep game

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Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

Firstly Brian kerr is a good manager. He is probably one of the best we have had so far. Its just that everyones expectation level has been lifted a great deal after Saipain and the new FAI(muppet show) and Kerr.

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Who is everyone ? My expectations weren't raised after Saipan (freudian slip that you called in SaiPAIN ?). Why would a player's personal vendetta against a manager raise expectations ?

Kerr's not perfect but show me the manager who is. He has his own prejudices and pre-conceived ideas like everyone else but so far so good in this group of which we are TOP. We are ranked in the Top 15 in the World. Not everything in the garden is rosey but we have come such a long way in the last 20 years. My God, we could be Scotland (who have their professional league) or Northern Ireland.

My heart wants me to say Kerr is doing a great job, but at the moment my head just says that with this group of players most decent managers would get results from them (though thankfully not Bryan Robson or Peter Reid) most of the time. On only a handful of occasions, maybe only even one - Israel, was the manager called upon to add value to the process and he didn't in my objective opinion.

In Israel the players did not perform. They are all experienced enough to know how to win from a 1-0 start in a place like Israel. Regardless of who was in charge the performances should have been better. But when changes apppeared necessary the bench did nothing. Fault all round in my opinion.

Duff said yesterday that nobody wanted the China game and that showed last night. My gut instinct is to be critical of him after last night too. But he was in an impossible position: if we'd have lost or drawn 0-0 he'd be in for a hammering. Instead he brings on experience, wins 1-0 and gets hammered! Forget the China game. The players didn't want it and can't be expected to put in a great performance under those circumstances.

My personal assessment of Kerr is that he's been good in parts. But then so was Mick. Off the pitch Kerr has been a big improvement. On the pitch things often look pretty much the same. At times I think Kerr has taken Mick's preference for a passing game a little bit higher. In aggregate then that's an improvement.

I'm still waiting for Kerr to put his unique stamp on this side and I'm still hopeful he will. Certain factors outside his control have gone against him: Miller's move, Healy's injury, Steven Reid's lack of progress until recently. This type of thing has slowed down the transition from Mick's team to Kerr's team.

I still think this team is very good when we have all our most talented players playing well. They've got to be trusted to play well and Kerr usually does this.

I always felt Mick never got anything more from a game than he deserved (except maybe Holland at home). I thought after Georgia away & Albania at home maybe Kerr had a little luck on his side. Myabe now it's just run out.

I think you're thinking too much about the match against Israel, which is not really a good example of anything. With a 1 - 0 lead after 3mins, it's really hard mentally to keep up with the entire game. The Irish team was reasonable throughout the first half while Israel was simply bad, it took them a while to get out of the shock. What also happened there, that because they were so bad they also put the Irish players into sleep. The main problem was probably trying to play it safe. It was like they thought, "oh, the Israeli team is so bad, they'll never score, so all we have to do is just keeping our lead", instead of trying to attack more. The field was a bit slow too, which played against Ireland, but it's still no excuse.

I was sitting right behind the Irish side in the game so I could hear Brian Kerr during the game, and he was trying to wake his players up, with not much success. Roy Keane also observed exactly this after the match, saying that this is the danger of having an early lead and that they should have attacked more. Cliche, sure, but also true.

And anyhow, it will be a totally different story in Dublin anyway, there's enough time to study the Israeli team, and I believe Kerr is even got back to Israel today, after yesterday's Ireland - China, to watch Israel play France.

In fairness to MicK McCarthy, I think his motivation and management skills were very evident in our opening match against Cameroon in 2002 when an outplayed Irish team came out (Mick made a few substitutions) in the second half and took the game by the scruff of the neck equalised and could have won, This is what Brian Kerr is incapable of achieving, to refer to the the Gaurdian article posted here by stuggart88, he is managing with fear which is reflected in limpless preformances in games that matter.. lets face it Kerr has never managed in a high pressure environment like the premiership before!!
I am still fuming after saturdays result we should of grabbed that game by the throat and ended Israels hopes.

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Originally Posted by Reality Bites

I am still fuming after saturdays result we should of grabbed that game by the throat and ended Israels hopes.

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I expected it, and that's what should have happened, but the very early lead also had a very strong effect on the game... and had the Israeli team scored first, which they could have, they had a few chances, and sadly a few more than the Irish team, which didn't really try, you would have been happy with a draw. Anyway, the result is a punishment for Kerr trying to play it safe, which is the opposite of what Mick McCarthy demonstrated in the WC2002.

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Originally Posted by Reality Bites

In fairness to MicK McCarthy, I think his motivation and management skills were very evident in our opening match against Cameroon in 2002 when an outplayed Irish team came out (Mick made a few substitutions) in the second half and took the game by the scruff of the neck equalised and could have won, This is what Brian Kerr is incapable of achieving, to refer to the the Gaurdian article posted here by stuggart88, he is managing with fear which is reflected in limpless preformances in games that matter.. lets face it Kerr has never managed in a high pressure environment like the premiership before!!
I am still fuming after saturdays result we should of grabbed that game by the throat and ended Israels hopes.

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What, by taking off an injured player (McAteer) who had lied to him (was there no medical staff there) and replacing him with the best right full in the Premiership that year (Finnan) who lost his place to a player (GKelly) who "looked really good in training" but really was the first player to speak in support of his manager when their only world-class player walked out.

The same McCarthy who failed to notice Spain down to ten men.
The same McCarthy who continually played an injured Harte (his admission).
The same McCarthy who..........oh whats the point.

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Originally Posted by stojkovic

The same McCarthy who failed to notice Spain down to ten men.
The same McCarthy who continually played an injured Harte (his admission).
The same McCarthy who..........oh whats the point.

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Well, everyone makes mistakes, that's part of life. I'm thinking that what should matter is the general approach and not certain mistakes or certain right moves.

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Originally Posted by Shae_B2D

Well, everyone makes mistakes, that's part of life. I'm thinking that what should matter is the general approach and not certain mistakes or certain right moves.

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He made alot, but anyway.
I think the problem with Kerr, if it is a problem is that he's too well prepared about the opposition and does his homework too efficiently. This can have an adverse affect in the way that the players are more concerned with what the opposition can do instead of worrying about what we can do.

Work to our strengths and let the opposition worry about us.

Be aware of the dangers but don't become fearful.

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Originally Posted by stojkovic

He made alot, but anyway.
I think the problem with Kerr, if it is a problem is that he's too well prepared about the opposition and does his homework too efficiently. This can have an adverse affect in the way that the players are more concerned with what the opposition can do instead of worrying about what we can do.

Work to our strengths and let the opposition worry about us.

Be aware of the dangers but don't become fearful.

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I see your point, but I don't think he should become even little less efficient, but he should have a better ballance between that and working to the team's strengths. Like in Israel, instead of using the team's strengths, he went on to mess with the Israeli strengths (hmm, strength, Yosi Bennaioun) which was a big mistake. Ireland has such a great offensive side, but they never really went for it. After leading 1 - 0 they just made sure Bennaioun won't got a possibility to score, and they paid for it with a goal from a different player.

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Originally Posted by stojkovic

He made alot, but anyway.
I think the problem with Kerr, if it is a problem is that he's too well prepared about the opposition and does his homework too efficiently. This can have an adverse affect in the way that the players are more concerned with what the opposition can do instead of worrying about what we can do.

Work to our strengths and let the opposition worry about us.

Be aware of the dangers but don't become fearful.

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I agree that we should work to our strengths and let the opposition worry about us. But you got to look at our own weakness and improve on it and see where the opposition can hit us hard. All this can be done on the training pitch and motivation. We are only as good as our weakest link. After all, it is how Israel got their goal. We sat back and let them attack us instead of attacking them with support. They can't attack us if we attack them with the ball and close any gap behind us for an counter attack. Put them on the back foot. In a sense to use an old cliché "Put them under pressure”.