Tháining Ár Lá . . .

Tháinig Ár Lá, agus d’fhuckamar é.
Rough translation: our day came, and we blew it.
In the space of a few weeks, how much damage has the republican movement suffered?
A few weeks before Christmas, it was all over, bar the speeches, and the issue of verifiability which was not beyond the imagination of the Decommissioning Body and both governments.
Then what happens? Disaster upon disaster:
1. Just before Christmas, the Northern Bank robbery.
2. Bertie Ahern's uncharacteristic hard hitting attack on Sinn Féin.
3. The denials by Adams and McGuinness are rubbished by the discovery of some of the stolen money in republican hands.
4. Just as Ahern was calming the anti - Sinn Féin frenzy, republicans remove forensic evidence at the Robert McCartney murder scene, but the dead man's sisters and fiance are having none of it, causing huge difficulties for any return to peace negotiations, and slaughtering Sinn Féin in the opinion polls.
5. The IRA offers to shoot those responsible for McCartney's murder, to predictable howls of outrage.
6. (The jaw breaker) Not getting anywhere on the matter of the unsolved murder, Sinn Féin apparently start a smear campaign against the dead man's sisters and fiance, and against the dead man himself.
The local Sinn Féin councillor in Cork is sound, IMO, but I would nearly vote Fianna Fail at this stage rather than ever give a vote for that party.
And as for the Peace Process, there is not much ground for optimism.

and a further footnote...
7/Someone sent the McCartney sisters a death threat proporting to be from the IRA, while they were visiting Mr Bush at the White House.

There used to be a pearl of wisdom , when you find yourself in a hole stop digging..... :cool:

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Originally Posted by Fair_play_boy

Tháining Ár Lá, agus d’fhuckamar é.
Rough translation: our day came, and we blew it.
In the space of a few weeks, how much damage has the republican movement suffered?
A few weeks before Christmas, it was all over, bar the speeches, and the issue of verifiability which was not beyond the imagination of the Decommissioning Body and both governments.
Then what happens? Disaster upon disaster:
1. Just before Christmas, the Northern Bank robbery.
2. Bertie Ahern's uncharacteristic hard hitting attack on Sinn Féin.
3. The denials by Adams and McGuinness are rubbished by the discovery of some of the stolen money in republican hands.
4. Just as Ahern was calming the anti - Sinn Féin frenzy, republicans remove forensic evidence at the Robert McCartney murder scene, but the dead man's sisters and fiance are having none of it, causing huge difficulties for any return to peace negotiations, and slaughtering Sinn Féin in the opinion polls.
5. The IRA offers to shoot those responsible for McCartney's murder, to predictable howls of outrage.
6. (The jaw breaker) Not getting anywhere on the matter of the unsolved murder, Sinn Féin apparently start a smear campaign against the dead man's sisters and fiance, and against the dead man himself.
The local Sinn Féin councillor in Cork is sound, IMO, but I would nearly vote Fianna Fail at this stage rather than ever give a vote for that party.
And as for the Peace Process, there is not much ground for optimism.

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To keep it short, most republicans couldnt really care what smear campaign was directed at them, its been a common affair, particularly over the past 30 years. Infact its only making them more determined and hardline.
Personally Ted Kennedy, Bertie or the Brits wouldnt change my beliefs. So, in fairness, SF's vote will probably hold and there might even be an emergance of more hardline Independant republicans in the next Northern elections.

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Originally Posted by Fair_play_boy

The local Sinn Féin councillor in Cork is sound, IMO, but I would nearly vote Fianna Fail at this stage rather than ever give a vote for that party.
And as for the Peace Process, there is not much ground for optimism.

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I'd rather vote PD than SF myself. :eek:

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Originally Posted by dortie

To keep it short, most republicans couldnt really care what smear campaign was directed at them, its been a common affair, particularly over the past 30 years. Infact its only making them more determined and hardline.
Personally Ted Kennedy, Bertie or the Brits wouldnt change my beliefs. So, in fairness, SF's vote will probably hold and there might even be an emergance of more hardline Independant republicans in the next Northern elections.

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Dortie, there is no shortage of armchair nationalists north and south of the border who are rubbing their hands in glee at these events. That sort of person will trash hard line republicanism even if they have no ammo, if you pardon the oxymoron.
What is different about this situation is that the murder of Robert McCartney did not just take place in the republican heartland in terms of geography. He is apparently from a strong republican background himself, and the attempt to undermine and discredit his sisters and fiance reveals an arrogance within the republican movement which is already dividing their own hardline support.
That is nothing to do with smear. The external enemies of republicanism do not matter anywhere near as much as the damage caused within the bedrock of republican support which is in working class Catholics areas. An own goal at any time is a hard thing to get over. One of this magnitude can only be fixed, IMO, by giving the McCartney sisters and the fiance what they want.

I honestly thought that they'd found roughly sod all to connect Republicans to the robbery. (What happened to those blokes they lifted with the sus money?) There was Orde's famous pronouncement, it must have been the Ra as no-one left any finger prints :confused:
The whole McCarthy murder is the low point for the republicans in the peace process, Bugging and the Northern Bank robbery all smacked of smear campaigns by the Brits but this? While sadly the right wing (and indeed centre ground) press this side of the water have reacted with undisguised glee to the sad situation there is little the Republican movement can say to change what happened. Maybe if the men involved had the interests of the Republicanism at heart they would not only hand themselves in but give a full confession and distance Republicanism from the whole episode.

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Originally Posted by Fair_play_boy

One of this magnitude can only be fixed, IMO, by giving the McCartney sisters and the fiance what they want.

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The Republican movement have taken the step of asking those involved to hand themselves in (statement by the IRA Friday 4th March and repeated assertions from the SF hierarchy) what further can they do? Honest question not one to provoke a storm of vitriol.

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Originally Posted by Fair_play_boy

Dortie, there is no shortage of armchair nationalists north and south of the border who are rubbing their hands in glee at these events. That sort of person will trash hard line republicanism even if they have no ammo, if you pardon the oxymoron.
What is different about this situation is that the murder of Robert McCartney did not just take place in the republican heartland in terms of geography. He is apparently from a strong republican background himself, and the attempt to undermine and discredit his sisters and fiance reveals an arrogance within the republican movement which is already dividing their own hardline support.
That is nothing to do with smear. The external enemies of republicanism do not matter anywhere near as much as the damage caused within the bedrock of republican support which is in working class Catholics areas. An own goal at any time is a hard thing to get over. One of this magnitude can only be fixed, IMO, by giving the McCartney sisters and the fiance what they want.

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The majority of republicans thought the murder was a disgrace, the fact the IRA not only dismissed them but offered to 'shoot' them proves that.
However the smear campaign by the media and respective governments will only damage the McCartney families respect amongst the grass roots, no doubt about it. Republicans also have a tradition of 'hardening' when their own mandates are not respected.What about the justice of those murdrered on bloody sunday, 30 years later the only person in Jail is a Derry man who refused to give evidence in court. Double standards in Northern politics is unreal.

The point i am making is, yes campaign for justice but dont be caught up and embroiled in party politics by those in glass houses.

The question that has been on a lot of people lips since the IRA "do not underestimate the sriousness" statement and even more so now is will there be a return to violence? Seems a lot of people are to scared to say thisup-front despite the British government moving the IRA up a notch on the terror-threat level.
TO be honest I can't ever see a return to the violence of the 70's/80's and can hardly see the ceasefire breaking....think times have moved on to much. If there's going to be any violence from the Republican movement it's going to be dissedants like the Christmas fire bombs in Derry on a bigger scale...

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Originally Posted by liam88

The question that has been on a lot of people lips since the IRA "do not underestimate the sriousness" statement and even more so now is will there be a return to violence? Seems a lot of people are to scared to say thisup-front despite the British government moving the IRA up a notch on the terror-threat level.
TO be honest I can't ever see a return to the violence of the 70's/80's and can hardly see the ceasefire breaking....think times have moved on to much. If there's going to be any violence from the Republican movement it's going to be dissedants like the Christmas fire bombs in Derry on a bigger scale...

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You have a point, the only thing all this demonisation/smearing will do is prove to more republicans that politics is a waste of time.