Whats the story with the goalies?

Another blooper tonight. Carroll fumbles a straight shot ! Can the big teams not get a proper goalkeeper? Arsenal United (liverpool-well maybe not a big team any longer) ; none of them have a goalkeeper they can depend on. Times to go looking abroad again. The lad Landreau (think he's with Nantes) would be a good buy. Just look at Cech - big fee , bought from a small club but he's carving out some reputation.
ou think that Arse Whinger for all his talent unearthing could save himself some trouble and unearth a good No.1

the problem is this stupid british notion that you have to catch the ball, that you're not allowed to punch it. People criticise Casillas for never catching the ball- when was the last time you saw him do something like that. As usual the English are paying for their stupid pride

Some are blaming the bounce of the new ball.

No excuse for Carrolls mistake, ball hardyl seemed to move at all.

However, did you see Lyons 3rd goal (Juninho I think). That must have moved 2 or 3 yards sidewards on its way to the goal

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Originally Posted by stojkovic

Some are blaming the bounce of the new ball.

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Not making any excuses for Carroll's mistake last night, but I've played with one of those new balls. They're definitely designed with strikers in mind - the movement, their lightness, the power that is possible.

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Originally Posted by Éanna

The problem is this stupid British notion that you have to catch the ball, that you're not allowed to punch it. People criticise Casillas for never catching the ball - when was the last time you saw him do something like that. As usual the English are paying for their stupid pride

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That's nonsense. There's a time for catching and a time for punching. If you can catch, it's far safer to do so than punch clear - it's the same as a defender playing the ball out of defence and hoofing up the pitch. I know I always like to see a keeper at Lansdowne punching at everything, because you know he's going to give you at least one really good chance.

And going slightly off topic, what's so stupid about English pride? They have pride in their culture and way of doing things, and fair dues to them. Much better than here where we'll do anything Europe/the US/the TV tells us.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

There's a time for catching and a time for punching.

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I agree. but from the moment that shot was hit last night, did it look to you like Carroll was going to save it??

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

They have pride in their culture and way of doing things, and fair dues to them. Much better than here where we'll do anything Europe/the US/the TV tells us.

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Agreed. But when someone does things better, you learn from it, you don;t ignore it. there's pride, and there's stupidity.

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Originally Posted by Éanna

I agree. but from the moment that shot was hit last night, did it look to you like Carroll was going to save it??

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I didn't see the match, but it doesn't matter. Your point is that catching is wrong (or at least, that's what I picked up from your praising Casillas for never catching), whereas mine is that there's a time for both, and if you can catch, you do. If Carroll couldn't have caught the ball, he shouldn't've, but he shouldn't have gone and punched no matter what.

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Originally Posted by Éanna

Agreed. But when someone does things better, you learn from it, you don't ignore it. there's pride, and there's stupidity.

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Of course. But it's traditional at this stage, if the Brits do anything different to the rest of the world (imperial system, not joining the euro, catching rather than punching, the monarchy etc.) to call them stupid and stuffy. That annoys me, though don't ask me why. I say fair dues to them, so long as they leave us in peace! :)

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I didn't see the match, but it doesn't matter. Your point is that catching is wrong (or at least, that's what I picked up from your praising Casillas for never catching), whereas mine is that there's a time for both, and if you can catch, you do. If Carroll couldn't have caught the ball, he shouldn't've, but he shouldn't have gone and punched no matter what.

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There's a time for both. I said people criticise him for never catching the ball- he actually does catch it, but only when safe to do so. How often do you see keepers in england punching? Its very rare. Obviosuly its better to catch it, but not if you risk a mistake.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

IOf course. But it's traditional at this stage, if the Brits do anything different to the rest of the world (imperial system, not joining the euro, catching rather than punching, the monarchy etc.) to call them stupid and stuffy. That annoys me, though don't ask me why. I say fair dues to them, so long as they leave us in peace! :)

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agreed. I admire a lot of things (not joing the euro for one) about the brits, and especially their single-minded pride in themselves, we could learn from it. But when it comes to punching/catching they're losing out by doing so, it makes no sense

in fairness, the continentals have always been kilometers ahead of us and the brits when it comes to technical abiliity and some tatics.

The vast majority of keepers, when they go for a ball, can punch a ball away and it usually never results in a goal afterwards.

On the other hand how many howlers in this season alone have been due to keepers fumbling the ball trying to catch it.

When in doubt punch it. If the English league was so good (technically, tatically etc) how come they have rarely won the Champions league. -> cos there wrong on loads of stuff

As for imperial measurements, the Queen, British Sterling, etc you know where you can stick that ! :p

as someone who plays as a goalkeeper, i much rather to thump everytime whilst being challenged for the ball, and catch at all other occasions.

as a united fan, i still rate carroll, in his time at united i can only think of four mistakes that he has made that have led to a goal

v charlton (02/03)
v lyon - this season
v spurs - this season (but didn't cost us as his reactiosn were quick enough, to make it a linesman error rather than a goal-keeping error)
& last night.

looking at them, last night was the first time that his mistake actually cost the club something. you would swear listening to george hamilton last night, that he was letting in clangers left right and centre.

of the other keepers mentioned (as good ones), they all have had their clangers. given was at fault for bolton's two goals against them in the reebok, cudicini-henry clanger last season (he hasn't had too much time this season to make a clanger). even the brilliant cech almost threw away what hope chelsea had last night by parrying a weakish shot straight back into the six yard box, but got lucky as etoo miscontrolled.

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Originally Posted by ColinR

as someone who plays as a goalkeeper, i much rather to thump everytime whilst being challenged for the ball, and catch at all other occasions.

as a united fan, i still rate carroll, in his time at united i can only think of four mistakes that he has made that have led to a goal

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I agree with ya on that one. I still rate Carroll also. I feel the same about Jens Lehmann. I can't remember Jens ever dropping a clanger into the net as such but he's been caught out a few times while playing almost like a sweeper for Arsenal. His shot-stopping and ariel ability are an improvement on the last few years of Seaman's career at Arsenal.

I think if you compare the stats for the same time period (8 months or so into his career) that Cech has been at Chelsea to the first seasons of Lehmann, Dudek, Howard & Carroll - there's not much difference.

The real test for keepers comes with consistancy and Cech has definetly shown that so far but has a lot of work to still do to maintain it in my opinion. Having a good defence (that's playing well !) in front of you can really help too! :D

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Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

in fairness, the continentals have always been kilometers ahead of us and the brits when it comes to technical abiliity and some tatics.

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You don't metricise phrases! :rolleyes: I bet you were one of those tedious people who was going around saying "1.269738 euro cent for your thoughts" and the likes a couple of years back...

Rant over...Apologies for that!

I think that Niemi and Jaaskeleinen (or however he spells it) are superior keepers to Lehmann, Carroll (who's solid at best, rarely pulls a save out of the top drawer) and especially Dudek. I think that Thomas Sorenson must be the over-rated keeper in England though and I say that as a Villa boy.