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Quick query - maybe Dodge or The Boss can help out.
What was the first game played in the FAI Cup?
Obviously it was in the 1921/22 competition. But the wiki page starts with the first round matches played in Jan 1922 - but UCD played in this competition as well, losing 6-2 away to Shamrock Rovers in a preliminary round. Are there any details of that round available? Was Rovers v UCD the first ever FAI Cup game, or were there other games played at the same time?
I count the First Round games as the first games proper. We qualified for the First Round, by winning a regional competition.
From Tadhg Carey's book, When We Were Kings...
http://foot.ie/asset.php?fid=2378&uid=86&d=1485215813
I have some limited record, somewhere, of some of the qualifying rounds from that season, I'll have a dig later this week. Had this conversation recently about what constitutes an FAI Cup game. Often the non-league teams qualify for the main competition by making the latter stages of other competitions- typically FAI Intermediate Cup or FAI Junior Cup. Obviously qualifying in that way doesn't make the FAI Junior Cup game an FAI Cup qualifying round game. However in the case atfconline mentioned I'd count those as distinct FAI Cup games. Likewise, I believe, there were dedicated qualifying rounds ahead of the 21-2 FAI Cup.
First round games in 1922 FAI Cup, all played on Saturday 14 January:
Dublin United 8-1 Frankfort
Olympia 1-3 Shamrock Rovers
St James's Gate 3-1 Jacobs
West Ham (Belfast) 0-0 Shelbourne
YMCA 3-4 Athlone Town
Athlone Town, Shamrock Rovers and West Ham were non-league sides.
Bohemians received a bye in the opening round.
I think these games constitute the first games in the competition proper.
The FAI Intermediate Cup was originally called the Qualifying Cup, as it was the avenue for (mainly) LSL and MSL sides to participate in the Senior competition. This competition started a few years after 1922 (1926 or 1927). I think Rovers won the LSL and qualified - not sure how Athlone and West Ham made it in.
i think that sounds right. does anyone still have the history of the FAI cup book? that would answer the question easily!Quote:
Originally Posted by The Donie Forde
That Athlone excerpt is interesting.
So the wiki article says the Cup started with the last 11. But the Athlone book says 37 teams entered in total - so 29 non-league teams took part in three regional competitions. UCD lost to Shamrock Rovers, and it seems we may have then been in a kind of pool (like the League Cup these days?) with some sides from Tipp. That'd mean at least four preliminary rounds. Hadn't realised it was quite that big.
It's in our club history that it was our first appearance in the FAI Cup - so it wasn't an FAI Junior or Intermediate Cup (the latter of which we won in 1915 and 1945, for example - 1915 being the IFA Intermediate Cup)
Will see what seand can dig up alright; thanks all!
Further on in the book, it says we received the walkover from Longford on November 19th 1921, beat St. Mary's Mullingar on December 3rd, and beat Clara on December 17th in what is listed as qualifying regional final.
Just had a look and it doesn't say anything at all re preliminary rounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinho II
It really only gives a couple of pages to each season and is pretty light on details like this.
I meant to say this yesterday which Longford team was it do you know considering Longford Town FC werent founded till 3 years later. Just curious!Quote:
Originally Posted by atfconline
Don't know Marty. It might say it somewhere in the book, but it doesn't get into any detail in the surrounding pages. I went into the library today but there was no archive there for 1921/22 - the paper was burned by the Black and Tans in 1921. The date is above if you want to check the Leader.
yep I do use their archive regularly online in local library so when I get the chance I will look it up as curious!Quote:
Originally Posted by atfconline
According to the Dundalk Democrat, in the 1922-23 season Dundalk GNR, then playing in its inaugural Leinster Senior League season, were defeated by Bray Unknowns 1-0 in the final of the Dublin District FAI Qualifying Cup.
Bray drew Shelbourne in the 1st round proper and lost 9-0.
This suggests that there were pre-first round qualifying games at that stage, not captured in McSweeney’s A Record of LOI Football.
In the next week or so I’ll check the Democrat archives to see if there are any further details.
There was a three-phase development of the qualifying procedure (which much later broke down in disarray, but that's not relevant right now ...).
First, there were Qualifying Rounds (approx 1920-1926). Then there was a Qualifying Cup, the "Finals" of which were often played months after the Qualifying was achieved and the early rounds of the Cup played. Then it was renamed the Intermediate Cup, and the Semi-Finalists were to qualify for the First Round of the FAI Cup.
For my archive purposes, the first two are integral to the Cup itself, and should really form part of any history. Once it becomes a stand-alone competition (with the word Qualifying removed) it gets its own history.
(You could quibble that once it has its own trophy, it's no longer integral to the Cup, but that's for another day. You could also quibble that it was the FAI Senior Challenge Cup at first, then the FAIFS Senior Challenge Cup until the late 1930s, and then the FAI Cup again. But let's not.)
I'm not at my base PC at present, but I'll post the results of the first season "Qualifying Rounds" later.
FAI Senior Cup Qualifying Rounds were played on a regionalised basis for the first five seasons, and the regional "winners" were included in the First Round ("proper" - I hate that usage!)
In the first two seasons that included a Northern region, called Falls in 21/2 (because all the clubs were from the Fall Road League) and Belfast the second season.
That's how Alton United got in, to become the first non-League winners of the Cup.
The very first Qualifying Round games were played on 19 November 1921 - the first answer to the original question.
The first "First Round" games were played on 14 January 1922 - the second answer to the OQ.
From 1926/7 the qualifying rounds were called the Qualifying Cup, and in addition to what I've already described, the regional winners played off for the Q.C.
Finals, with one exception, were played in Cork and most years well after the Senior Cup Final itself!
Beginning in 1931/2, it was re-established as the Intermediate Cup, with a broader remit. League clubs could put their second or third teams in for that, and although in theory the Semi-finalists were to be admitted to the FAI Cup 1st round, it was a rule very often ignored.
For what it's worth, here are the Qualifying Cup Finals, which are not easy to track down:
1926/7 Final (08 May, Cork):
Drumcondra 2-0 Cobh Ramblers
[Swan 2]
1927/8 Final (22 Apr, Cork):
Bohemians (Cork) 5-0 Strandville
[Buckley, Staunton, O'Sullivan 3]
* Strandville played with 10 men for all of the second half
1928/9 Final (21 Apr, Mardyke)
Fermoy 3-5 Richmond United
[Field, Carr 2 (1p); Redmond 3, Woods, Whelan]
1929/30 Final (29 Dec, Clonmel):
Glasnevin 2-4 Cahir Park
[Drumgoole, McEvoy; Heuston, O'Brien 2, Mulcahy]
1930/1 Final (19 Apr):
Bohemians (Cork) v Rossville, a draw
Replay (10 May, Cork): Bohemians 3-2 Rossville
Magnificent stuff littlebray, thanks, I'm in nerdvana. Looking forward to the next instalment and qualifying round results 21-2!
:-)
Of the qualifying cup finalists 1927 winners Drumcondra joined the league in 1928, and Cork Bohs were in the league 1933-1935. Cobh Ramblers took their time about making the step up!
Incidentally Shamrock Rovers were beaten 1-0 at Tipperary Wanderers in the qualifying round, but the match was replayed on appeal and Rovers won the replay 1-0.
Yes, if memory serves the protest was about pitch markings and the height of the goalposts ...Quote:
Originally Posted by seand
I can post the qualifying rounds here, but they still need work (I am missing some results and lots of scorers), and I'm deep in another project at present. I'll talk to braywanderers.com and see if they'd mind an incomplete page - you'd need a link to it, it wouldn't come up in the normal site navigation.