Long ball or not? Quality of football

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Originally Posted by LFC in Exile

I think he was too much of a footballer for some of them.

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That is so true it's not even funny. Don't know the guy, never even seen him play but unfortunately I know what you mean when you say that.

There are a fair few EL fans who, if the player isn't seen to be hoofing it up the park out of dangers way, they will scream abuse at him. If he can play a bit of football then he can be seen as "fannying about".

I have witnessed this myself and have laughed to myself when I have heard them same fans moaning about the team playing sh!te football :rolleyes: :mad:

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Originally Posted by jebus

One of the most positive aspects of last season's campaign so Pats should snap him up if they can. Wonder did Drew or Noel contact him about coming back to us? With a princely sum of $50 on the table how would he be able to say no!! :rolleyes:

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i just heard he was nt offerd a contract by limerick he wanted one and was waiting for it but it never happened. limerick released him to play for a dutch team .he is on trial now with pats


i know what ye mean about being too much of a footballer too . the long ball and chase it is all that is played in loi until teams change this it will allways be a joke of a league

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Originally Posted by drinkfeckarse

That is so true it's not even funny. Don't know the guy, never even seen him play but unfortunately I know what you mean when you say that.

There are a fair few EL fans who, if the player isn't seen to be hoofing it up the park out of dangers way, they will scream abuse at him. If he can play a bit of football then he can be seen as "fannying about".

I have witnessed this myself and have laughed to myself when I have heard them same fans moaning about the team playing sh!te football :rolleyes: :mad:

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yeah, I know exactly what he's getting at. I've heard some "interesting" comments from people like this in the past. Still, its not only in this league- I remember being at a game in the Bernabeu, and there was a guy a few rows back who kept roaring "Zidane inutil" (Zidane, you're useless) all the time :rolleyes: :D

anto1234

its easy to say its all long ball this/ etc

its just a generalisation - at the top end of the spectrum a team like Shelbourne were all full time pros who would have had to bring a certain amount of tactical sophistication and awareness to bear in order to get results in competitive action v Split, Lille and Deportivo - while they are undoubtedley the best the others in the prem are hardly light years behind - they just dont have the personnel/ or resources to go fully full time like shels have

its easy to say its "all long ball" but in all fairness there a hell of a lot of that goes into a performin in prem team in this country

come off it i watched all those european games and they were a very poor . they played out of there skins all right but none of it was impressive. its still at a standard of the english 2nd div . and for a country who's international team is nearly inthe top 10 we should have a way better league in this country .

alot of money has to be spent in developing players from very young . by rights what should be done is teams use players that will pass the ball and run at players but instead they opt for the big guy up front and kick the ball at him . ive followed loi for about 15 years and have nt seen a real talent for a good 5 years maybe more

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Originally Posted by anto1208

come off it i watched all those european games and they were a very poor . they played out of there skins all right but none of it was impressive.

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"they played out of their skins" but "they were very poor" :confused: How do you work that out? Look at the quality of the last 2 teams they played, Depor may not be having a great season, but they're still a decent Primera Liga side, and Lille are 2nd in the French league, and looking like they might win it. Obviously shels aren't going to be all over them. What they did was take the correct approach for any underdog- play to your strengths and try and nick a goal.

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Originally Posted by anto1208

its still at a standard of the english 2nd div . and for a country who's international team is nearly inthe top 10 we should have a way better league in this country .

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the league as a whole probably is at about that standard, but the top 2 or 3 teams in the Premier would IMO survive in the 1st division. Anyway, why do we always compare ourselves to england- this season we proved that our champions were better than iceland and croatia, and a decent match for a french and spanish team. We also proved that our 2nd best team was good enough to beat a team thats just won the swedish league, a mid-table dutch side, and gave a good account of themselves to a decent french team. It doesn't really matter whether the football is nice to watch, once you get the results. Obviously its nice to watch good football, but ask any fan what they'd rather from their team- success or nice football?

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Originally Posted by anto1208

alot of money has to be spent in developing players from very young

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we all know that. tell the FAI or the government!

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Originally Posted by anto1208

by rights what should be done is teams use players that will pass the ball and run at players but instead they opt for the big guy up front and kick the ball at him .

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have you watched Cork City FC lately? :)

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Originally Posted by anto1208

ive followed loi for about 15 years and have nt seen a real talent for a good 5 years maybe more

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by your own admission you've been watching 1st division games, so that might go a long way to explaining why! There are some excellent players out there. Why else would guys like Murphy, Kearney and Doyle done so well for the U21's? or Crowe and Byrne being called up for the senior team?

Lads, I split the thread because it was gone way off topic. interesting discussion though. keep it going :)
Éanna

Lads, I split the thread because it was gone way off topic. interesting discussion though. keep it going here :)
Éanna

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Originally Posted by anto1208

they opt for the big guy up front and kick the ball at him .

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Yeah, that Glen Fitzpatrick is huge, he must be about five and a half foot. You're generalising here Anto, some teams play long ball, some don't. Most teams occasionally play it the same as in any other competition

IMO, there's a big difference between aimless hoofing and hitting the ball long effectively. If you have pacey forwards, or forwards who are good in the air, then its just playing to their strengths to hit a high ball up to them, or to hit one over the top. there's nothing wrong with that- hasn't beckham built his entire career on "precision hoofing" :)

theres a lot of questions ill try to answer them all
played out of there skins meeans they played to the absolute best of there ability . which still was nt that good . does that make more sense .
im not trying to take anything away from them they did really well but the teams they played were in pre season training , shels were playing league games which will affect match fittness , they were underdogs playing to there strengths this is true what i want for irish teams is not to be the underdog for some day to be able to go out and play these teams off the pitch .

i compare it to the english league coz its close and i dont know much about the croatian 2 nd div !!

i understand what you say about fans prefere results to nice football id say the decline in attendences and the decline in the type of football play might have some connection .

ive tried telling the fai and goverment but they dont listen to little guys like me , only the big guys like keane thats why his stand in saipan was so important we need a few more of them to shake it up .


i have seen cork a few times and ill admit they do try to play ball some times but the main problem is all the young talent goes to england rather than staying here no fault to them its the right thing to do but they should have the same oportunities here .

kinda proves what im saying when the best in the country was crowe and sereously he is nt even that good , he wont take robbie keane or even morrisons place

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Originally Posted by Bald Student

Yeah, that Glen Fitzpatrick is huge, he must be about five and a half foot. You're generalising here Anto, some teams play long ball, some don't. Most teams occasionally play it the same as in any other competition

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kinda have to generalise when you are talking about all the teams in one sentence !!! :D

but does he play up front on his own ?

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Originally Posted by anto1208

does he play up front on his own ?

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Sometimes he does, most times he doesn't. Good managers adjust their tactics to suit each game. The same as in every other competition.

UCD were relegated two years ago. Playing some of the nicest football in the process.


Drogheda play some fine football too and came third last season, lacking the depth to finish higher and none of the luck that cup specialists have... ;)


Two very different outcomes of a good footballing side in the eL

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Originally Posted by anto1208

theres a lot of questions ill try to answer them all
played out of there skins meeans they played to the absolute best of there ability . which still was nt that good .

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So drawing with last years CL semi finalists and one of the contenders for this years French league is "nt that good" and division two standard? You have a weird view of the respective strenghts of certain leagues in Europe if you think that. Also neither Deportivo and espically not Lille were in "pre season training" when we played them. Deportivos season had started when we played them and Lille were a good few games back into their season.

We also didn't punt the ball forward aimlessly, at least not until late on like every other team in Europe does if they need a goal late on, mainly because since moving Harris to the back we've nobody who can dominate in the air. Despite his goals v Lille Fitzpatrick is generally not very good at all in the air, he's not exactly your Gary Doherty type.

Shelbourne aside, I think most teams in the eL at least try to play football properly. It's a good change. I suppose because Shels don't have any supporters they don't feel a need to impress anyone. It's a pity.

Passing football is a utopian dream. Theres a difference between long balls which used in all the top leagues & hoofs.

was just about to point out that the title of this thread is ridiculous - a long ball that finds a player on your team is one of the best moves in football

Jason Byrne is the leagues top striker and he gets goals from all sorts of situations


I think anto ure stuck in 1988 with the idea of "long ball" and "da big man up front" - all football has moved on since Jack Charlton let alone Irish football

Just going back to my original post, I agree with Eanna, I should make it clear that the attitude I was talking about applies to all levels of football IMO. Not just the EL. :)

Last weekend Wayne Rooney scored 2 cracking goals in a match in Britain, funnily enough bothe came from long balls from the back.

That aside, if you look at the game and ask why do teams have to play a lot of long ball you must look at the opposition also. Theres no way in Ireland, or in the Britiah Leagues a keeper will be allowed pass the ball to his centre half or full back without an opposition player closing him down. Watch a game from Britain and see how may times kick outs are played long, nearly all the time, its all about winning the second ball in the middle of the park and play your football from there.
In European soccer teams are content to let the opposition carry the ball almost to the halfway line, taking a pass from the keeper unchallenged.