Shelbourne to sell Tolka Park in move to Donabate

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14/12/2004, 6:59 AM
Ringo

Shelbourne to sell Tolka Park in move to Donabate

Shelbourne to sell Tolka Park in move to Donabate

Shelbourne FC is planning to sell off Tolka Park stadium in Drumcondra, North Dublin for �40m to developers and open an integrated facility in North County Dublin

Tuesday December 14th 2004

SHELBOURNE FC is planning to sell off Tolka Park stadium in Drumcondra, North Dublin for �40m to developers.

This will allow it fund a top-of-the-range integrated sports campus in Donabate capable of holding up to 8,000 people.

The current Eircom National League champions have already held discussions with developers and with Dublin city councillors going back over 18 months about getting its Drumcondra power base rezoned as suitable for residential use.

At the same time, Shelbourne is in talks with Fingal Country Council about getting a greenfield site in Donabate rezoned to allow them fulfil their ambitious stadium plans that will also include a gym, junior soccers pitches and all-weather playing field.

The complexity of these negotiations, according to club chairman Finbarr Flood, means the club is unlikely to leave Drumcondra until at least three years' time.

"Our objective is to get all of our activities on to the one site," he said, adding the club currently uses five different locations to train and play matches.

Mr Flood said having everything on the one site would lead to major synergies both in terms of improving the quality of facilities available to its players and eliminating the �130,000 a year it currently costs it to rent pitches around North county Dublin.

The Shelbourne chairman stressed that any move would be subject to getting local councils' approval and was ultimately designed to allow the club to better compete in Europe.

The story first emerged in the Fingal Independent which quoted Senan Turbull, a senior Fingal County Council executive, as saying the move was "a great opportunity to have a premier team in Fingal".

It is understood the FAI has had no direct talks with Shelbourne. However, they are expected to do so next year as part of major talks with all of the Eircom League teams about their structural development.

In a separate development, Shamrock Rovers has also turned to property developers for help.

Businessman Conor Clarkson is in the process of buying out Mulden International, a property development firm led by Bernard McNamara, who half-built the Hoops unfinished stadium in Tallaght for under �3m.

Mr Clarkson is expected to invest around �8.5m in buying out Mulden and getting the stadium back on track early next year.

He is then expected to attempt to get the surrounding land around the stadium rezoned to allow him build a leisure complex and retail space strategically located opposite The Square in Tallaght.

Tom Lyons

� Irish Independent
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/ & http://www.unison.ie/
14/12/2004, 8:23 AM
drinkfeckarse

I thought Shels leased Tolka? I'm sure I can remember an old thread here about something like they had a 99 year lease on Tolka but didn't actually own it? :confused:
14/12/2004, 8:50 AM
jimhacker

Quote:

Originally Posted by drinkfeckarse

I thought Shels leased Tolka? I'm sure I can remember an old thread here about something like they had a 99 year lease on Tolka but didn't actually own it? :confused:

If you have a long lease you can still sell what is known as the leasehold interest - it's almost the same as owning the place.

Donabate???????? Long way from Ringsend!!!!!
14/12/2004, 8:54 AM
Ringo

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimhacker

If you have a long lease you can still sell what is known as the leasehold interest - it's almost the same as owning the place.

Donabate???????? Long way from Ringsend!!!!!

Its leased as as sports ground. They could sell their lease to another football club. The land belongs to all of us in Dublin, leased from Dublin City council. Why should shels get a huge amount of money for it & invest outside the Dublin city council area.
14/12/2004, 8:55 AM
OneRedArmy

[QUOTE=jimhacker]If you have a long lease you can still sell what is known as the leasehold interest - it's almost the same as owning the place.QUOTE]

Shels will only receive a percentage of the sale cost of the land, as a compensation payment for allowing the early termination of the lease, with the vast majority of the proceeds going to the Council who own the land.
14/12/2004, 9:01 AM
eoinh

Was in Donabate last weekend. The Fingal Independent made the story its only front page news. They gave great coverage to the story. 8000 for the stadium is way too small though if they are to have any sort of ambition.
14/12/2004, 9:19 AM
Ringo

Quote:

Originally Posted by eoinh

Was in Donabate last weekend. The Fingal Independent made the story its only front page news. They gave great coverage to the story. 8000 for the stadium is way too small though if they are to have any sort of ambition.

I think 8000 is very ambitious for them :D
14/12/2004, 10:05 AM
jimhacker

[QUOTE=OneRedArmy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimhacker

If you have a long lease you can still sell what is known as the leasehold interest - it's almost the same as owning the place.QUOTE]

Shels will only receive a percentage of the sale cost of the land, as a compensation payment for allowing the early termination of the lease, with the vast majority of the proceeds going to the Council who own the land.

The bulk of the money going to the Council is only fair and Shels slice would presumably be a reasonable sum as well.However the last thing football needs is another Tallaght/Bishopstown situation -which is what will hapen if Shels don't score enough on this deal
14/12/2004, 10:44 AM
pete

AFAIK all apartments have collective (management company) 99 freehold on land but probably has no actual value.

The only wat shel$ could presumably get some cash is by doing deal with Dub City Council to leave Tolka so that Council could then rezone it & sell for housing or whatever...

I don't know how the hell shel$ think that Tolka is worth 40m. I;d be surprised if land worth 10m for apartments.
14/12/2004, 11:17 AM
LFC in Exile

If you do buy an apartment there - make sure it isn't on the ground floor. :)
14/12/2004, 11:19 AM
thejollyrodger

The �40 million figure seems a little high alright but Dublin is one of the most expensive locations in Europe. Shels are going to need at least �10 million to develop their grounds in Donabate if not more. I am not totally convinced about the financial windfall for Shels but really hope it goes ahead.

A 8,000 seater stadium should suffice for Shels for the time being, I dont know if they will break into the group stages of the Champions League just yet, there are some formidable teams in the third round but they could get into the UEFA Cup. So I think the new ground should be ok for that.

Cant wait to see the plans for the new ground. It is said that the ground will be easily upgraded at a later date.
14/12/2004, 11:28 AM
eoinh

But when you consider that they got at least two attendances this year above 8000 (albeit in the European Cup) why settle for that.

They must make sure that they can increase the size of their stadium above 8000 if they ever need to.
14/12/2004, 12:01 PM
dcfcsteve

[QUOTE=OneRedArmy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimhacker

If you have a long lease you can still sell what is known as the leasehold interest - it's almost the same as owning the place.QUOTE]

Shels will only receive a percentage of the sale cost of the land, as a compensation payment for allowing the early termination of the lease, with the vast majority of the proceeds going to the Council who own the land.

If Shels are Leaseholders on the land - with a typical 99yr lease - then essentially they 'own it'. It's just the same as having a leasehold house - you can sell it for not too far off the value it would be if it was a Freehold property. I'm not sure of the law in the Republic, but you should also be able to buy the Freehold as well if you wanted (you may be reliant on the goodwill of the Freeholder though).

They're not renting the property - being a leaseholder gives you rights over the land/property, and puts you in a de-facto ownership position. Therefore, if it is a traditional-style lease with 70+ years left on it, they'll get the close to the full value of the site. The developer then would probably look to buy the Freehold from the Council, which is where DCC would benefit and pick-up the rest of its value.
14/12/2004, 12:02 PM
Troy.McClure

AFIK Shels do actually own the land. It was put in to a trust or something like that after Drumcondra went belly up and was signed over to them about 2 years ago. Dont know the ins and outs though.

Im supprised about the 8k though, surely they could have gone for 12ish?
14/12/2004, 1:53 PM
Slash/ED

Quote:

Originally Posted by eoinh

They must make sure that they can increase the size of their stadium above 8000 if they ever need to.

That's the plan, we'll be able to expand the capacity so it's over double the 8,000 if we ever have to fairly easily.
15/12/2004, 8:00 AM
rerun

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFC in Exile

If you do buy an apartment there - make sure it isn't on the ground floor. :)

...and don't park in the underground!!!
16/12/2004, 11:21 AM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conor74

No they won't, not at all. As I pointed out above, banks will not give purchasers a mortgage unless they get a lease of more than 60 years, so those apartments could not be sold after 10 years except to cash buyers.

Now, a 999 year lease is as valuable as the freehold, a 500 year lease would be too, or even a 99 year lease where the Landlord had agreed to sell the reversionary interest or where there was some element that entitled the leaseholder to acquire the freehold, like a building lease, but a 99 year lease simpliciter has a limited value...

Thanks Conor. Just for the record - I'm actually a property developer....! :D
16/12/2004, 1:14 PM
CollegeTillIDie

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Thanks Conor. Just for the record - I'm actually a property developer....! :D

You're that bloke off the telly.,... LOADSAMONEY :D Innit?
16/12/2004, 1:15 PM
CollegeTillIDie

Well Shels moving to Donabate is one way of reducing the number of Dublin clubs, they would then be a bunch of culchies from County Fingal :D
16/12/2004, 2:16 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by CollegeTillIDie

You're that bloke off the telly.,... LOADSAMONEY :D Innit?

I wish ! If I was i'd be doing the Shels and Rovers grounds meself :)