Fox Hunting

Around 150,000 people are expected to turn out across Britain today for the start of the new fox-hunting season in a show of defiance over the proposed ban on the sport.

More than 300 hunts are meeting in England, Scotland and Wales, with supporters more determined than ever that this will not be their last hunting season.

MPs have voted in favour of an outright ban on hunting with hounds and ministers have threatened to use the Parliament Act to give them supremacy over the Lords, which has voted to allow registered hunts to continue.

But Darren Hughes, from the Countryside Alliance, said hunt supporters were confident that growing support for their cause would ensure the sport survived.

Read it all on http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0...246817,00.html

What are your opinions on this? I agree that it should be banned.

:mad: I would definitly like it to be banned. Cruelty on behalf of the social elite.

Ban it, too cruel

The idea that entertainment should be in the form of the death of another living thing is bizzare to say the least.
For all those who argue it isn't cruel; imagine being chased for a couple of thosand yards knowing that if you were caught you were going to die. Finally your still live shattered body being ripped apart by a pack of dogs. Not cruel? catch yourself on. Shows a certain sickness in the mind of anyone who finds 'entertainment' in the hunt.

And any supporter don't give any crap arguements about pest control because you know them to be dubious to say the least.

Find myself in the unusual position of backing Sligoman, any chance of a pole on this?

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Originally Posted by Pat O' Banton

Find myself in the unusual position of backing Sligoman, any chance of a pole on this?

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Why is it unusual that you are backing me Pat? :D

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Originally Posted by Pat O' Banton

The idea that entertainment should be in the form of the death of another living thing is bizzare to say the least.

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First off, I've no real interest in any blood "sport". I'm not one to spend my weekends out in the cold, unless there is football involved. But I think your argument also applies to fishing and shooting. To ban one and not all is daft.
Yet, would people want it taken this far?
I doubt it. Why is there a difference?
I think this is due to the fact that people are no longer closely connected to the countryside and to wildlife. Packs of animals chase and kill others everyday. It's totally natural. And animals die every day to give us pleasure. We don't need to eat steak, we could live on plants. We eat meat coz it gives us pleasure. No one cares about this unnecessary death.

To be frank, I personally don't care if a few foxes, rabbits or trout die. They're only animals and people have hunted them for millenia. What right have you to tell another individual to stop this behaviour now? For many people, not just rich landowners, these pursuits provide entertainment and social interaction.

After the world goes veggie, I'll listen to an argument in favour of outright bans. Until then, I'm not bothered.

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Originally Posted by liamon

Packs of animals chase and kill others everyday. It's totally natural. And animals die every day to give us pleasure. We don't need to eat steak, we could live on plants. We eat meat coz it gives us pleasure. No one cares about this unnecessary death.

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I am a vegetarian (I suddenly feel as smug as a ManUre fan :eek: ) so that does colour my jugement. I wouldn't really mind if the 'sports' you mentioned above were banned, but my point was also in the absolute cruelty and terror that a fox must undergo before its death and the fact that this is what people call entertainment. If people really do enjoy the thrill of the chase wy not do drag hunting, one can only presume because they get a certain thrill in watching something be ripped apart while still alive, pretty sick in my book.

Poll now added.

Personally, I'd rather ban the toffs that go fox hunting, and their stupid suits etc. rather than because of the cruelty aspect (as I suspect is the overriding emotion of most of the "Labour" MP's that support the ban).

Other points I think are relevant are:
1) Urban dwellers telling the country dwellers how to live their lives. It's very similar to the whole planning debate over here, where the city people want to keep the countryside "pretty" for their day trips there.

2) If you ban fox hunting what is next? Fishing? When conservation is a major role of any angling club. It's yet more nanny statism (expect Ireland to follow suit soon)

3) Is hunting with hounds really that different from hunting with a gun? Is it really less cruel to risk a fox getting a flesh wound and dying after several days of agony?

4) Foxes are vermin. People wouldn't have a problem hunting rats in a similar way.

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Originally Posted by Macy

Poll now added.

Personally, I'd rather ban the toffs that go fox hunting, and their stupid suits etc. rather than because of the cruelty aspect (as I suspect is the overriding emotion of most of the "Labour" MP's that support the ban).

Other points I think are relevant are:
1) Urban dwellers telling the country dwellers how to live their lives. It's very similar to the whole planning debate over here, where the city people want to keep the countryside "pretty" for their day trips there.

2) If you ban fox hunting what is next? Fishing? When conservation is a major role of any angling club. It's yet more nanny statism (expect Ireland to follow suit soon)

3) Is hunting with hounds really that different from hunting with a gun? Is it really less cruel to risk a fox getting a flesh wound and dying after several days of agony?

4) Foxes are vermin. People wouldn't have a problem hunting rats in a similar way.

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The vermin agrguement is fairly limited. If this was really a pest control issue won't a more effecient way be found to control fox numbers greater number of traps, sterilisation etc.
Anyway surely you lot across the water should be against the ban as it is likely to result in an influx of gits regularly to the hunts that take place in Ireland.

Country dwellers have no worries about forcing things like the change of clocks (which always coincide with an increase in the amount of road deaths) on urban dwellers.

It is cruel, and it is wrong. Its little better than a fella going out to kill a cat simply because he likes mice.

Hunted foxes are not used as a food source, its just a "pleasure" killing. Thats not to say that if it were for food would make it any better.

I dont believe that people should be allowed to legally participate in such barbaric 'sports'.

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Originally Posted by Gary

Hunted foxes are not used as a food source, its just a "pleasure" killing. Thats not to say that if it were for food would make it any better.
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A lot of "hunted" fish don't get eaten either. Should we ban fishing?

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Originally Posted by Pat O' Banton

I am a vegetarian ....do drag hunting, one can only presume because they get a certain thrill in watching something be ripped apart while still alive, pretty sick in my book.

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Fair dues on the veggie thing. At least you're consistent.

As for watching things getting ripped apart, why do David Attenborough and Co. always show the lions ripping zebra apart? Coz we like to watch it. Hence - Society is sick. Conclusion - ban society!

Now, off to Kerry for a night of clubbing..... ;)

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Originally Posted by liamon

Now, off to Kerry for a night of clubbing..... ;)

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:D

Any apologies for the fact it now seems that it was a virus that killed the seals, and the "bullet/nail" marks were actually seagulls? Didn't think so, too busy hugging a tree somewhere...

^^^^^

If its the Thrill Of The Chase, well play hide and seek or something, killing an animal for fun isnt an option IMO.

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Originally Posted by Liamon

A lot of "hunted" fish don't get eaten either. Should we ban fishing?

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I believe fish caught that arent for for eating should be thrown back.

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Originally Posted by Conor74

No it's not, it's a pleasure hunting. People don't go to horse races salivating at the thought of seeing the jockeys whip the horses. People don't go to football matches for the thrill of seeing injuries. And people who hunt are not some weirdos who get their kicks from watching the fox dying, it's the thrill of the chase...

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Is whipping horses or players getting injuries the point of Horse racing or football. The point of hunting is to watch an animal get killed.

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Originally Posted by Conor74

So you would have no problem if the fox was just savaged, but left alive? Fish are thrown back, but only after their battle to avoid being dragged by a hook into an alien environment. I don't think they're offered any counselling for post traumatic stress either...

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Don't think they're savaged either Conor, just exhausted. The number of repeat catches of fish show it doesn't do long term damage.

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Originally Posted by Pat O' Banton

The vermin agrguement is fairly limited. If this was really a pest control issue won't a more effecient way be found to control fox numbers greater number of traps, sterilisation etc.

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Not really the point I was trying to make. It's the one place they fall down on, trying to justify it as anything other than a sport, where they don't actually catch that many.

The point I was trying to make is if it was rats that were being hunted, by "ordinary" people, I doubt anyone would care. Foxes are the lovable rogues of city wildlife who occasionally raid and empty bins, in the countryside they are vermin that kill for fun.

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Originally Posted by Conor74

No, it's not. The point of hunting is the hunt. Would have thought the name of the sport would give a clue.

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Why not drag hunt instead then?

Being a UCD fan I have no issues with the social elite but I don't like fox-hunting because it isn't a fair fight. So ban it.

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Originally Posted by Conor74

So you would have no problem if the fox was just savaged, but left alive? Fish are thrown back, but only after their battle to avoid being dragged by a hook into an alien environment.

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Originally Posted by Macy

Don't think they're savaged either Conor, just exhausted. The number of repeat catches of fish show it doesn't do long term damage.

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There was my answer. Macy got there first.

Admittedly fishing can be seen as being barbaric also, but personally, I just cant see the buzz is seeing a fox get ripped limb from limb!

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Originally Posted by Macy

:D

Any apologies for the fact it now seems that it was a virus that killed the seals, and the "bullet/nail" marks were actually seagulls? Didn't think so, too busy hugging a tree somewhere...

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Do you have a source for this? I'm not doubting you, just interested.