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Just to give this its own thread: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...s-backing.html
Looks like this idea is going ahead, but changed from the nine division format that was originally mooted. Instead, larger divisions of 16 teams each, further split into groups of four, with a knock-out stage to decide actual winners. Likely to begin sometime in/after 2018. Going by FIFA/UEFA rankings at the moment, Ireland would be somewhere in a third division I suppose.
I preferred the idea of the 9 division format. It was much more straightforward.
Either way this has to be welcomed.
I agree, fantastic news. Only a nerd (like me and several others here) really got anything out of the friendlies. They lack intensity, context (other than getting a look at players) and excitement. Bring it on.
Is division based on UEFA coefficients or what?
Any idea how the TV money is being divvied up?
Sounds great overall. I suppose it would mean the end for friendlies against any teams outside of Europe though, more or less, but not a big deal I suppose. We don't have too many anyway.
This bit seems crazy though:
"As well as the carrot of promotion, winners of the lower divisions could be rewarded with wild-card places at future European Championships."
Sounds pretty interesting.
So there is a 16-team top flight divided into 4 groups of 4, but what's under that? More mini-groups, or more levels? I'm wondering how promotion would work, if there are mini-groups underneath also. Perhaps a playoff similar to the top flight, but with promotion as a reward?
I also wonder how the rankings would work, regarding qualification for world cups or european championships. Would there be two separate ranking systems, or would results in one affect seeding for the others? Could be problematic if it is the latter.
I have used up my Telegraph quota, so I can't read that article.
Does this new nations league replace the existing play-off system to decide the final 4 qualifiers?
If so, I suspect that would make it even harder for us to get to a WC ever again.
This has nothing to do with the World Cup. So no, doesn't replace the play-offs. Just replaces friendlies.
Sounds fun.
A competition every 2 years. Seems like the group stages would run parallel to WC or EC qualifying. The finals (2 semis + final) would take place in years with no WC or EC final.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
From the article:
Quote:
The precise format of the competition has yet to be confirmed but it is understood that there is almost unanimous support for a biennial event which would replace friendly games and run in parallel with the World Cup and European Championship from 2018.
As it stands, Uefa wants to divide the event into three or four divisions, with promotion and relegation between them.
England would qualify for a 16-team top flight, which would be split into four groups of four, with home and away fixtures taking place alongside qualifying matches for the World Cup and European Championship. Germany, Spain, Italy, France, Holland and Portugal are all likely to join England in the top division.
The winners of each of the four groups would then advance to a ‘Final Four’ tournament at a neutral venue, with two semi-finals and a final taking place over several days during the summer of odd-numbered years.
As well as the carrot of promotion, winners of the lower divisions could be rewarded with wild-card places at future European Championships.
Have you read a statement from Uefa about that?Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
The story that's being widely repeated is that in reference to the Euro and WC,
'the new tournament would not replace the current qualifying competitions for those major events, but it would award the four qualification spots that are currently decided by the play-offs'
Perhaps the 'wildcards' mentioned in the article refers to what are now playoff places?Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
The article linked refers to wildcards for the Euros only. Geysir was asking about the World Cup. Specifically, it says "winners of the lower divisions could be rewarded with wild-card places at future European Championships", so it's pure speculation for the moment anyway.
I don't see how the wildcards could entirely replace the playoffs though. You've got four wildcards presumably - four divisional winners. The Division 1 winner will have qualified anyway. Division 2 would possibly - I'd say half the time or more - have qualified. Would UEFA want the Division 4 winner at the Euros? I don't see that that could really be a concern for us either way.
You'd also have divisional winners decided by the summer of 2019, which would be at the key stages of the Euro 2020 qualification schedule. Would they award qualification spots to teams three games from the end of qualification, running the risk that countries treat the remainder of games like proper friendlies? Seems to be going down the same line as understrength teams in the Premiership.
Is this Telegraph article being awarded special status, above all others?
The story that is being repeated in most other media outlets is that WC and Euro playoff places will be awarded in this nations league set up.
Uefa haven't released a statement yet, have they?
Edit.
In the absence of a Uefa statement confirming the format of the tournament.
This is the status quo format according to 'reliable' Uefa sources.
UEFA's new 'League of Nations' tournament will see some countries win qualifying places for the World Cup and European Championships, it has emerged.
The new tournament, which would be played biennially in odd-numbered years on the dates currently reserved for friendlies, is expected to be given the go-ahead by UEFA's Congress in Kazakhstan on Thursday after receiving backing from the body's ruling executive committee on Wednesday.The exact format has still to be confirmed, but UEFA sources said European countries would be split into four divisions, with England set to be in a top division of 14 teams along with Spain, Germany, Italy and Holland.The Nations League would begin after the 2018 World Cup and have a climax of semi-finals and final at a neutral venue, while in the lower divisions there would be a final to decide on promotion and qualification places for the World Cup and European Championships.The new tournament would not replace the current qualifying competitions for those major events, but it would award the four qualification spots that are currently decided by the play-offs.
Well link away and add to the debate so. The Telegraph article is the only one on the thread.
Either way, I don't think such a system would mean the end of WC qualification as you put it.
Edit - I'll do it for you to save you another moan. Here's Sky Sports, for example, saying that 2022 play off spots would require FIFA approval, so nothing more can really be said about it till FIFA comment.
But either way, if there's the same number of countries qualifying from Europe for the Euros or the World Cup, I don't see that it can significantly affect our chances of qualifying. Certainly the notion that it'll be harder to "get to a World Cup ever again" seems to be unfounded. Occasionally, we'll win division 3 like the rest.
Maybe you missed it, but earlier I quoted the statement that was being repeated in many media outlets.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I put it differently, I said "I suspect that would make it even harder for us to get to a WC ever again"Quote:
Either way, I don't think such a system would mean the end of WC qualification as you put it.
That Sky article implies that there are various proposals at this stage. I've seen the top flight consisting of 12, 14, or 16 teams in different newspaper sites.
It seems to have been agreed only in principle at this stage.
Then the format is to be decided later, they are only voting in the principle idea of the tournament.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
Nothing can be ruled in or ruled out at this stage
Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
You're a bit behind on the thread. My more recent posts have covered those now. Edit - also, you edited your post after I replied. I see the Indo article now; thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
But I still don't see how it can be "even harder for us to get to a WC ever again". Same number of teams qualifying should lead to a similar chance for us. Even if qualification is given to the top two in Divisions 2 and 3 (to cover the Division 1 winner already qualifying anyway and the Division 4 winner not being good enough, or even there not being a Division 4), sometimes we'll qualify that way.
In fact, let's hypothesise. Cos this sounds like a fun concept anyway.
There are 54 countries in UEFA. Let's say there's going to be 16 in the top Division split into four groups, with semis and what have you. Let's say it's done on FIFA World Rankings, and let's say the groups are seeded. So you've a top flight of, let's say -
Spain
Switzerland
England
France
Germany
Holland
Croatia
Russia
Portugal
Belgium
Ukraine
Denmark
Italy
Greece
Bosnia
Sweden
All sounds fun.
That leaves 38 more teams. Right now, we're 34th in Europe. So a 16-team Division 2 means we're one of the top teams in Division 3. If there's a qualifying spot for promotion, then happy days.
Or maybe there's two divisions of 12, and a final division of 14. A division of 12 could be done on a single-round basis over two years, with two promoted. So you'd have -
Albania
Norway
Slovakia
Israel
Finland
Ireland
Bulgaria
Poland
Belarus
Macedonia
Northern Ireland
Estonia
Downside - no major pay days in there (no England or Brazil friendlies, for example). Maybe that could be countered by bigger TV deals. Upside - a top two spot would be entirely possible in that division. And we'd still have the regular qualification group as well.
Not really seeing anything that particularly affects our qualification hopes as yet to be honest.
I still don't see what would happen if a team qualifies through both mechanisms. Presumably it'll go to the next team down, but in which section? The qualification or the league? But that'd be similar to the problem where a club wins the Cup and comes second in the league - does the UEFA Cup spot go to the Cup runner-up or the next team in the league? It'd seem to make sense that the qualification is the main event, so the dupe spot goes to the next team in the league.
Another thought would be what would happen if you had a bad start to the league - say lost the first three games in Division 2. A logical approach would be to focus on the qualifiers, treat the league as a developmental thing, get relegated and hope to cruise Division 3 for the next campaign and get qualified there.
Now I'm behind the thread :) I introduced what was being reported in other media outlets here.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
And now we have got to a better understanding of what is on the table at the Uefa congress and that the World Cup play off places, an idea previously dismissed, is still a live possibility.
Qualifying is not just a numbers game, a number game that 14 qualifying spots under the present system is equal to 14 qualifying spots under another system and that we would have an equal chance under both systems.Quote:
But I still don't see how it can be "even harder for us to get to a WC ever again". Same number of teams qualifying should lead to a similar chance for us. Even if qualification is given to the top two in Divisions 2 and 3 (to cover the Division 1 winner already qualifying anyway and the Division 4 winner not being good enough, or even there not being a Division 4), sometimes we'll qualify that way.
I suspect that the nations league system will give a better chance, to better teams than us, who don't win their WC qual group outright.
I suspect, means I'm suspicious that it will be more difficult, I don't yet have a case that I can bring to the court of public opinion because we don't know anything yet.