Fenlon a fool?

Is Pat Fenlon a fool to play 4-5-1 tonight? I think so. I really hope Shels win, but it was obvious to me that playing 4-5-1 in the first leg backfired in that Shels were unable to hit it long to the strikers when they were under pressure at the back ( Lille pressed Shels for almost the whole game ).
Shels had to try and play their way out of trouble from the back and ended up giving the ball away in bad positions ( the small pitch also backfired in this way too ).
When Shels had two up front they were all over Lille so it seems obvious to me that 4-4-2 is the best way to go, especially as Shels have to win tonight -all the media are saying that 4-5-1 has served Shels so well so far -true but only in getting draws most of the time...

Playing 4-5-1 Shels have achieved the following in Europe this season:

P W D L
7 1 4 2

Remeber, Shels HAVE to win tonight ( unlikely to get 3-3 draw ).

just because that is what 4-5-1 produces, it doesnt mean 4-4-2 will produce a definite win. They did improve after change of formation in LR but so did their desire to get on the ball and stop hoofing it round the place nervously. If they go in with the right (positive) attitude they will do well

Lille will now have a good measure of Shels ability, playing 451 wont work as well as it would be expected now. 442 and dont hold back is probably the most realistic chance they have now.

4-5-1 wasn't the problem and isn't suddenly crap after getting us so far this year. The problem was a non match fit Crawford and Morgan, who's poor anyway, simply couldn't keep hold of the ball. This will be different with Moore and Byrne back. We'll play as we did against Split at home I reckon, 4-1-4-1, keep it tight and try to keep it scoreless for the first half, attack them and try to get the goal needed in the second. If we concede, we'll need to score twice, we can't afford to go all guns blazing. It's the same situation as it was against Split.

By the way, to call Fenlon a fool shows how stupidly fickle football supporters can be.

i think 4-5-1 is the way to play now especially if wezzer can get on the ball and work his magic but the only way it will work is when shels do break they will have to break in numbers especially the wide men, its vital that they get into the box, i know its not easy but they have to get up and down the field and put in a massive effort

Jason Byrnes distribution is poor so the lone forward will kill shel$ if they don't encourage midfielders to get forward when they have possession.

Fenlon has been ultracautious in the games to date but not bad tactic to keep it tight in 1st half, would still like to see them be more adventurous earlier in 2nd half if can keep at 0-0.

Lille are 2nd in frnech league so obviously hitting formn at the moment.

This season has seen glut of eL games on tv so hopefully a start of things to come.

Dare i say it good luck $helS.

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Originally Posted by pete

Dare i say it good luck $helS.

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How dare you !! :D

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Originally Posted by pete

Jason Byrnes distribution is poor

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I disagree with that, in fact it's one of the best parts of his game. Look at the cross for Fitzpatricks goal on his weaker foot, some of his passing and crossing against Split was superb too. He held the ball up brilliantly and got others into it against Depor away and for the bit he played up front on his own against Depor at home too. In fact, his distrubition is one of the reasons he's played right wing alot in Europe this year and why Sheridan (I think it was Sheridan anyway) was on here earlier saying he should play there more often.

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Originally Posted by Slash/ED

By the way, to call Fenlon a fool shows how stupidly fickle football supporters can be.

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If you look at any of my other posts you'll see that I've never been a fan of Fenlon's. As far as I'm concerned they should have sacked him after Shels lost to Hibs ( although knocking out Hadjuk Split has made up for that, that defeat still hurts ). On top of all this is Fenlon's apparent apathy toward European competition, which REALLY irks me.

Most decent managers with Shels squad would do a good job. Don't think I want Shels to do badly, of course not, I want them to WIN! I'm just questioning Fenlon's tactics -OK????

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Originally Posted by Shelsman

Most decent managers with Shels squad would do a good job. Don't think I want Shels to do badly, of course not, I want them to WIN! I'm just questioning Fenlon's tactics -OK????

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Fair enough, you're wrong, but fair enough :p

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Originally Posted by Slash/ED

Fair enough, you're wrong, but fair enough :p

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Make that:

P W D L
8 1 4 3

Are you still convinced 4-5-1 is the best approach? Shels never looked like scoring to me, except at the very end when they had two or three up front. The first offside against Shels was in the 91st minute -just shows how often they got down the other end.

Fenlon is quoted in The Star today as saying:
"We've got to learn not to give away the ball in dangerous areas"

What do you suggest Pat? That they play it long? Well playing it up to a single striker with four defenders around him isn't going to do much -is it?

If you think we'd have beaten a team second in the french league in a stadium where they haven't conceded a single goal this season simply by playing 4-4-2 instead of 4-5-1 you're deluding yourself.

And he's spot on in what he says, and what we need to do is learn how to make short passes in mid field and create space so we're not constantly under pressure in the mid field, which we weren't able to do last night and which Lille did superbly last night. Ndo would have made a big difference, but I can see Fenlon trying to get Hunt off Bohs, who's out of contract at the end of the season, to add to the depth in the mid field.

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Originally Posted by Slash/ED

If you think we'd have beaten a team second in the french league in a stadium where they haven't conceded a single goal this season simply by playing 4-4-2 instead of 4-5-1 you're deluding yourself.

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If you look at my post you will see that I never once said that I thought that we would beat them simply by changing formation. What I was trying to say is that we would have played better, that's all. We were beaten by a better team, no doubt about it.

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Originally Posted by Shelsman

If you look at my post you will see that I never once said that I thought that we would beat them simply by changing formation. What I was trying to say is that we would have played better, that's all. We were beaten by a better team, no doubt about it.

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Well I don't think we would have to be honest, I think with 4-4-2 they would have attacked us even more in the first half and scored more. I think he was right to do what he did against Split in what were similar circumstances, we gave away a soft goal this time and it wasn't to be, but the formation got us the split win and did so well against Deportivo. If we can learn to keep the ball better in mid field and maybe that means getting someone like Hunt in, if we could pull that off, then 4-5-1 is the way to in Europe, ffs even Man United sacrifice strikers and play like that more often than not in Europe.

I think with one or two new faces and Sara, we could do even better next year.

I think by in large the 4-5-1 was a good enough strategy for Europe. Shels would have more chances up front with 4-4-2 but could have been carved up a lot more if it was 4-4-2. Keeping the scoring as low as possible is the key in Europe and then trying to score near the end.

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I think with one or two new faces and Sara, we could do even better next year

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Really ? If Shels can get into the third round again I will be impressed. Split were a tough nut and there are harder nuts to crack in the second round.

Now is the time for Felon to take in all the lessons he has learnt and plan for next seasons european games. The other E.L clubs should follow suit.

Next year Shels need to play all their matches at Tolka Park unless its a REALLY big team like Deportivo if they want to maximise their chances. The home leg at landsodowne road against Lille was a mistake.

The sides Shels are playing are good, but not world class. A lot of the goals or chances came from Shels mistakes rather than the oppostion setting up their own goal.

Second thing Fenlon needs to work on from now till next season is passing and ball rentention. There are loads of exercises you can do to work on that and Shels REALLY need to work on that just to take the pressure off themselves. They are crap in this area.

If you look at Lille and Deportivo they both scored when Shels gave the ball away. Thats something that they can cut out completly if they work on their passing and ball retention.

Fenlon will have to get the players a lot stronger and fitter . Moving the league to the summer was a start but he is going to have to take their fitness regime to another level. Weights etc. Shels looked unable to play 90 minutes of football at Lille's pace.

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Originally Posted by Slash/ED

Well I don't think we would have to be honest, I think with 4-4-2 they would have attacked us even more in the first half and scored more.

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I still don't agree. If Shels had pushed a midfielder right up front when they had the ball then maybe...

Considering Shels HAD to win I think playing 4-4-2 would have been justified, rather than hoping to catch them in the last 10 minutes. Lille were spot on tactically in that they pressured Shels at the back and we had to go long to a single striker and lose possession again, then spend the next 10mins trying to get the ball back.