Perception And Anti-Social Behavior in the LOIe

How big a problem, when it comes to promoting the league and getting people in the gate, is anti-social behavior? We've seen, sadly, plenty of such incident already this season, not least the carry-on last night in Sligo. This would include pitch invasions, drunken fans in stands (and I mean falling down drunk mind, not just a bit tipsy), vehicular damage, aggressive behavior outside of grounds and residential areas near grounds, etc.

We all know this is down to a minority, and in the case of the damage to the Limerick bus coming back from Sligo, probably wasn't even anything to do with football fans at all. But perception is important, and I wonder how negatively all of this reflects on the LOI.

When it comes to reasons why the LOI isn't getting a very large audience, how big of one is this kind of thing? I know one or two people who swear off the league because of what they deem a "violent" or drunken element pervading (one lives in Cabra, and has had more than one bad experience around Bohs/Shams time), but how prevalent is that? Do people notice this as a cause for lack of engagement from some people? Is it on the increase?

And what can be done? Should LOI clubs start banning people from going to games for life? How enforceable is that, really? Is it a Garda issue or a stewarding one? Do other sports in Ireland have similar or worse issues with ASB?

It's another excuse for people to complain about the LOI while the English league is all full of niceness and goodness.

Clubs are afraid to ban fans and enforce banning orders as most struggle for crowds.

Drogheda fans tell me that the hooligans who went on the rampage in Sligo are well known to the club.

The FAI should take action against clubs who renege on their responsibility.

But they won't.

You wouldn't catch me dead watching a football match in a pub. I saw on the telly a while back that there was some trouble in a pub down in Cork. Terrible hooligan scumbag element you find associated with pubs, and until they clean up their act, I'll experience alcohol by drinking cans at home!

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Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

It's another excuse for people to complain about the LOI while the English league is all full of niceness and goodness.

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Sorry, but just because the English game has hooligan issues doesn't negate people's entitlement to look for higher standards of behaviour before going to games here.
It's not just an "excuse".

Every time there's an incident, which generally these days involves fans getting onto the pitch at will, there's a certain amount of gleeful comment in the media and on the Internet forums but that's where it ends and nothing changes as far as I can see.

This stuff happens the world over, it just doesn't get as much attention from media unless it is so large scale as to be unavoidable.

It seems that Irish media enjoys reporting and exaggerating LOI incidents and non-LOI fans enjoy reading and/or talking about it as another stick to beat the league with. Ditto the reasoning for media exaggeration.

Not to say we shouldn't be attempting to eliminate these occurrences.

Fans getting n the pitch almost every week doesn't happen the world over.

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Originally Posted by dong

Fans getting n the pitch almost every week doesn't happen the world over.

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That's nice. I was, however, responding to the OP.

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How big a problem, when it comes to promoting the league and getting people in the gate, is anti-social behavior? We've seen, sadly, plenty of such incident already this season, not least the carry-on last night in Sligo. This would include pitch invasions, drunken fans in stands (and I mean falling down drunk mind, not just a bit tipsy), vehicular damage, aggressive behavior outside of grounds and residential areas near grounds, etc.

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Originally Posted by dong

Sorry, but just because the English game has hooligan issues doesn't negate people's entitlement to look for higher standards of behaviour before going to games here.
It's not just an "excuse".

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Never said it should be accepted. I agree, these things need to be hit on the head, hard and fast. But the fact is, since it's the LOI, and the only press the League gets is generally bad press, it's another excuse for people to give out about the League.

Six one news on RTE had a shot of a few Drogs fans running onto the pitch trying to start a fight with Ross Gaynor.

Didn't mention the other matches last night or give a roundup of scores.

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Originally Posted by adamd164

Six one news on RTE had a shot of a few Drogs fans running onto the pitch trying to start a fight with Ross Gaynor.

Didn't mention the other matches last night or give a roundup of scores.

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Typical. And i bet the Herald is the same tomorrow as well.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

That's nice. I was, however, responding to the OP.

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Yes and I was responding to your point.
The OP did mention pitch invasions...

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Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter

How big a problem, when it comes to promoting the league and getting people in the gate, is anti-social behavior? We've seen, sadly, plenty of such incident already this season, not least the carry-on last night in Sligo.

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Sorry, I am confused. Shamrock Rovers weren't playing in Sligo last night.

On a serious note, behavioural problems at LOI are probably exacerbated by the late starts, particularly at clubs who play on Saturday nights where people have all day to drink (this isn't a dig at Sligo - I've never met a Sligo fan who wasn't a gentleman). The LOI doesn't have a huge hooligan problem but it could probably be improved by moving to afternoon games. Whether that would help attendances, I don't know. Clubs could absolutely do more to highlight undesirable elements, including my own.

I see where you're coming from but in Sligo people love evenings under the lights. Rather than give that up more attention could be focused on refusing people entry if they are clearly drunk. It might lead to a few scenes at the turnstiles, but stationing a small handful of cops there should be enough to deal with that.

To be honest, I've never seen a gard at a LOI game who looks like they'd be willing to evict a drunk person. Half of them look **** scared to begin with.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

It seems that Irish media enjoys reporting and exaggerating LOI incidents and non-LOI fans enjoy reading and/or talking about it as another stick to beat the league with.

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My thoughts exactly. Funny enough I was having a chat with two lads (barstoolers) in Kennedys (a pub next to Oriel) after the match on Friday and said basically the exact same thing to them. Both asked what was the result from the Dundalk/Cork match and claimed to be 'big' Man Utd and Aresnal fans. Both said they wouldn't go near Oriel due to the 'trouble' at matches - as I said the Kennedy's is a minute from Oriel & full of Dundalk fans & a couple of Cork fans as well fans at this stage.

I was wasting my time talking to them, as they firmly believed half the fans that go to LOI matches are hooligans and the media has a lot to answer for this. The only time I remember a LOI match in the back of a major newspaper was when Rovers fans came to Oriel in 2010, but incidents like that are the one thing non-LOI fans remember.

I am not saying we don't have problems with certain fans, but with most problems it the minority and in comparison to other Leagues, crowd trouble in the LOI isn't a major issue. Even the GAA has more 'violence' or 'crowd trouble' at matches on and off the pitch. But I do feel the security at a league games could be improved on. A lot of clubs have stewards who have no training and who are very lacks with their implementation of the rules and regulations at grounds. The same could be said for the Gardaí who are often reluctant to implement the ground regulations as well and only get involved when serious issues arise. For example some people pointed out that plenty of the Drogheda fans gained access into the Showgrounds when they where clearly drunk, it would be the same at a lot of other grounds, but shouldn't be the case. Prevention is better than cure.

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Originally Posted by Guinney

My thoughts exactly. Funny enough I was having a chat with two lads (barstoolers) in Kennedys (a pub next to Oriel) after the match on Friday and said basically the exact same thing to them. Both asked what was the result from the Dundalk/Cork match and claimed to be 'big' Man Utd and Aresnal fans. Both said they wouldn't go near Oriel due to the 'trouble' at matches - as I said the Kennedy's is a minute from Oriel & full of Dundalk fans & a couple of Cork fans as well fans at this stage.

I was wasting my time talking to them, as they firmly believed half the fans that go to LOI matches are hooligans and the media has a lot to answer for this. The only time I remember a LOI match in the back of a major newspaper was when Rovers fans came to Oriel in 2010, but incidents like that are the one thing non-LOI fans remember.

I am not saying we don't have problems with certain fans, but with most problems it the minority and in comparison to other Leagues, crowd trouble in the LOI isn't a major issue. Even the GAA has more 'violence' or 'crowd trouble' at matches on and off the pitch. But I do feel the security at a league games could be improved on. A lot of clubs have stewards who have no training and who are very lacks with their implementation of the rules and regulations at grounds. The same could be said for the Gardaí who are often reluctant to implement the ground regulations as well and only get involved when serious issues arise. For example some people pointed out that plenty of the Drogheda fans gained access into the Showgrounds when they where clearly drunk, it would be the same at a lot of other grounds, but shouldn't be the case. Prevention is better than cure.

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They have a point though. When was the last time a group of Manchester United fans showed up at an Arsenal pub in Dundalk and caused trouble? Never. It's all those blasted LOI fans.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

On a serious note, behavioural problems at LOI are probably exacerbated by the late starts, particularly at clubs who play on Saturday nights where people have all day to drink. it could probably be improved by moving to afternoon games. Whether that would help attendances, I don't know.

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We played Sligo last year on a Saturday afternoon. The game didn't pass off without incident.

Better security/stewarding is the answer, not afternoon kos.

This is what Drogs fans think about some of their supporters.

http://www.forzadrogs.com/?p=1206

The media love hyping LoI trouble, as it justifies them not covering it the rest of the time. The majority of punters lap it up, as it justifies them not going (add to the list of bs excuses).

The type of idiots that say there's too much trouble in the LoI probably refer to themselves as "Gooners" if they're Arsenal consumers or as being part of the "Red Army" if they're United consumers without having a f**king clue about the origins of those nicknames.

As a father of two young children, potential trouble doesn't put me off bringing the children to a match. (State of the jacks on the other hand...)