Rainmakers...

Quote:

---

From BreakingNews.ie
The Chinese city of Shanghai says it has successfully induced rain showers by firing chemicals into clouds, breaking a heat wave that has severely strained electricity supplies.

Rain fell yesterday afternoon after a plane shot more than 400 pounds of silver iodide into clouds, according to a statement.

Those showers sparked natural storms that soaked large parts of the city with about half an inch of rain, it said.

---

The poor folks in Boscastle must be wondering who shot silver iodide into the clouds over them.
Makes you wonder though, how much control over the weather will we have in future and what impact will it have on our planet?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by davros

F*ck up the climate/Planet for good.....

---

Ah no, we'll be ok.
Sure look what happened when the dinosaurs screwed up the planet, everything went back to normal after around 65 million years :D

I think the trouble is that we're already controlling the climate, by our terrible over dependance on fossil fuels. But taking it in context, there was a dreadful flood not too far up the road in the sixties when a load of people died in similar circumstances. Sadly, these things do just happen sometimes.
But yes, climate change scares the living Jebus out of me.
Talking of whom... Boscastle was actually on TV last week, when the local vicar visited the famous Museum of witchcraft in the High Street. Less than a week later some people are already talking about the wrath of God... :eek:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by davros

Due to us w*nkers,all burning fossil fuels......F*ck up the climate/Planet for good.....That's our fellow species for you :mad:

---

davros i never took you for a crustie hippy :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by davros

Green by Political inclination & By Nature........ ;)

---

Greenhouse Gasses are what got us into this mess in the first place!
Bloody Greens :D

All very well saying that it's us burning all the fossil fuels, but what are the alternatives? Nuclear Power? Since all the "green" options don't produce enough power and would have an taisce up in arms, not that it's always great to see those cúnts wound up.

Mind you, the failure of the Government to actively support and give tax breaks to cleaner energy is disappointing - thinking of the guys that are trying to develop the rape seed oil running "diesel" cars (a form of energy that would have no effect/ little effect on the environment, and is sustainable). Also, in the North there are grants available for Heat Exchangers/ Thermo pumps, solar panels etc, which if available here would certainly encourage people to use them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Macy

All very well saying that it's us burning all the fossil fuels, but what are the alternatives? Nuclear Power? Since all the "green" options don't produce enough power and would have an taisce up in arms, not that it's always great to see those cúnts wound up.

Mind you, the failure of the Government to actively support and give tax breaks to cleaner energy is disappointing - thinking of the guys that are trying to develop the rape seed oil running "diesel" cars (a form of energy that would have no effect/ little effect on the environment, and is sustainable). Also, in the North there are grants available for Heat Exchangers/ Thermo pumps, solar panels etc, which if available here would certainly encourage people to use them.

---

Nuclear power's a worry, and no doubt about it. George Dubya's answer to the Californian natural gas crisis of four years ago was to build nuclear reactors on the San Andreas faultline. :( Gas is far, far cleaner than coal, oil or peat, but is still bad when compared to alternatives.
Windfarms are clean, but unpopular when built on land. Ones at sea, just over the horizon are invisible to the observer, but still don't produce enough juice. Yet.
Carbon neutral options like biomass still aren't getting nearly enough attention.
It's a long way from when every house in the western world has a small windmill in the chimney, solar panels on the roof tiles, recycles everything and drives a natural gas car. but even then, we'll still be stuck once the Chinese economy screams into overdrive, doubling their gdp every year or something at the moment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by green goblin

... we'll still be stuck once the Chinese economy screams into overdrive, doubling their gdp every year or something at the moment.

---

The price of coal has already gone up, as China is effectively buying all the surplus coal to drive it's industrialisation. Not that good for our Kyoto targets if all the savings elsewhere get devoured by China's production of greenhouse gases.

On the bright side, current research should ensure that a new generation of cheap, effective solar panels will hit the market by 2008-2010. Should help reduce emissions somewhat.

Anyway, I'm not sure if all this greenhouse gas - gobal warming thing is totaly accurate.

good points macy, but the problem as you moved towards is the price, a grant would really be needed for solar panels etc beause of the high price of installing and using such items.

here is one for yee, in ireland a good source of sustainalbe/alternative energy are wind farms...with all the wind off the west coast we could/do produse a lot of energy, but planning permission for a lot of these farms have been tured down because, wait for it " they don't look nice and spoil the countryisde ", eh cop out !!!

i deal with Chernobyl a lot here and have visited the area through work and all i can say is NO to nuclear power, when you see ythe damage even a small spill can do, it makes you think twice about such an energy source.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by liamon

The price of coal has already gone up, as China is effectively buying all the surplus coal to drive it's industrialisation. Not that good for our Kyoto targets if all the savings elsewhere get devoured by China's production of greenhouse gases.

On the bright side, current research should ensure that a new generation of cheap, effective solar panels will hit the market by 2008-2010. Should help reduce emissions somewhat.

Anyway, I'm not sure if all this greenhouse gas - gobal warming thing is totaly accurate.

---

Trouble is, I'm not sure it's enough to simply create new green products and drop them into the market, hoping people will do the right thing. Our governments need to be on something like a war footing on this issue, and they're not. On a global level the only real downside to democracy is that goverments change every 4 or 5 years, and as a result are not all that keen on committing enormous sums of money and resources on schemes that might see results in 50-75 years time. Top that with the Chinese not having to join in on one hand, and the Amercans refusing to on the other and it all gets a worry...

God, but this getting gloomy. Ireland are going to win tonight, we're all going to be cheering and shouting, and here we are discussing the end of world. I need a drink. Have one yerself, lads.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by max power

here is one for yee, in ireland a good source of sustainalbe/alternative energy are wind farms...with all the wind off the west coast we could/do produse a lot of energy.

---

We've got loads of them down in West Cork.
Also a gas CPH in one company in my village and another company there has a biomas CPH. We also recycle a lot.

i know i see cork people are picking clothes out of rubbish bins even when they are in tipp :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by max power

good points macy, but the problem as you moved towards is the price, a grant would really be needed for solar panels etc beause of the high price of installing and using such items.

---

I would love to incorporate solar panels and use geothermal energy in our house, but we simply can't afford it. It may pay for itself over 20 years, but that's no good for us having to pay the mortgage payments now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by max power

here is one for yee, in ireland a good source of sustainalbe/alternative energy are wind farms...with all the wind off the west coast we could/do produse a lot of energy, but planning permission for a lot of these farms have been tured down because, wait for it " they don't look nice and spoil the countryisde ", eh cop out !!!

---

An Taisce cúnts. Lock them in the basements of their D4 houses so these self appointed moral guardians of the countryside have no say.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Macy

I would love to incorporate solar panels and use geothermal energy in our house, but we simply can't afford it. It may pay for itself over 20 years, but that's no good for us having to pay the mortgage payments now.

---

Goes back to what I was saying about the war footing, above. Western governments have to bite the bullet and find ways to makeenergy efficiency and renewable energy economically viable. We'll all go greener than green if it means that its far cheaper to do so than to stick with what we have at present. And that means things like zero tax on certain items- and tax breaks for the manufacturers too, so the savings get carried along the food chain to the end user. Zero tax on energy efficient bulbs, tax normal bulbs to death is an easy example. They cost more, so fine, get everyone started by sending out 10 to each household. They last for years, anyway. It'll cost a fortune, but that's peanuts compared to flood defences once the Greenland ice shelf melts, and so on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by green goblin

We'll all go greener than green if it means that its far cheaper to do so than to stick with what we have at present. And that means things like zero tax on certain items- and tax breaks for the manufacturers too, so the savings get carried along the food chain to the end user. Zero tax on energy efficient bulbs, tax normal bulbs to death is an easy example. They cost more, so fine, get everyone started by sending out 10 to each household. They last for years, anyway. It'll cost a fortune, but that's peanuts compared to flood defences once the Greenland ice shelf melts, and so on.

---

I have no problem paying more, just a question of how much more. Your talking €10000 for a geothermal pump (just the pump, not the ground works, piping, underfloor heating etc). That's an additional €50 a month on a mortgage for 25 years (roughly), over 25 years at the current all time low interest rates! Even tax relief, similar to the rural renewal scheme, for people operating energy efficient houses would make a difference....

interseting reading on www.breakingnews.ie

if anyone is boring enough to be interseted in a full copy of this document i have it here on my desk...

Increasingly frequent storms, floods, droughts and other extreme weather across Europe are consequences of global warming and other climate changes, the European Environment Agency said today.

Its report that draws a grim picture of rising sea levels, melting glaciers in the Alps and deadly heat waves.

The 107-page report by the EU agency ”underlines that strategies are needed, at European, regional, national and local levels to adapt to climate change”, said Jacqueline McGlade, the EEA’s executive director.

“Europe has to continue to lead worldwide efforts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions,” McGlade said.

The climate changes “will considerably affect our societies and environments for decades and centuries to come”, she said in a statement in connection with the release of the report: Impacts of Europe’s Changing Climate.

Global warming is believed to be caused by human activities, in particular emissions of heat-trapping greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide from the burning of fossil fuels.

In a statement issued by the Copenhagen-based agency, McGlade called for the ratification of the 1997 UN pact for combating climate change, known as the Kyoto Protocol.

The protocol aims to reduce carbon-dioxide emissions worldwide in 2010 to 8% below 1990 levels. The emissions degrade the Earth’s protective ozone layer.

The United States, the world’s biggest emitter of greenhouse gases, has refused to sign, arguing the agreement would be harmful to its economy.

So far 123 countries, including all 25 EU members, have signed. But without Russia or the United States the accord cannot take effect, because it must be ratified by nations representing 55% of the industrialised world’s emissions.

Russian officials said earlier this year that it was unlikely their country would ratify any time soon.

The 1990s were the warmest decade on record, and the three hottest years recorded – 1998, 2002 and 2003 – occurred in the last six years, the EEA said. The global warming rate is now almost 0.2 C per decade.

The report singled out summer floods across Europe two years ago and last year’s summer heat wave in western and southern Europe as recent examples of how destructive extreme weather can be.

The flooding killed about 80 people in 11 countries, affected more than 600,000 and caused economic losses of at least €14.8bn, according to the agency.

More than 20,000 deaths, many among elderly people, were recorded during the European heat wave in 2003, which also caused up to 30% of crop harvests in many southern countries to fail, the EEA said.

Melting reduced the mass of the Alpine glaciers by one-tenth in 2003 alone, and three quarters of those glaciers could disappear by 2050, the report said.

Sea levels along European shores rose by 0.8-3.0mm per year in the last century. The rate of increase is projected to be two to four times higher during this century.

The EEA covers the 25 EU countries and Bulgaria, Romania, Turkey, Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway.

the kyoto agreement is also available.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by max power

the kyoto agreement is also available.....

---

Nah,you can hold on to that one,I've memorised it! :cool:

I don't necessarily buy the whole global warming arguement either though. It's obvious that burning fossil fuels can't be good for the environment, however, the worlds climate has always been cyclical.

Fact is, fossil fuels will run out eventually, and they will become harder and therefore more expensive to dig, drill for, etc. It makes economic, as well as environmental, sense to get in ahead of the game in becoming less reliant on fossil fuels. The quicker we're nearly 100% clear of fossil fuels the better.

macy time to cycle into work in the morning, we all have to do our bit after all ;)