James McClean

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Originally Posted by Olé Olé

Maybe some day we'll see a IFA player switch their allegiance to the English FA and see whether they are met with the same bile that McClean (or any of his counterparts) was.

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If it was a Northern Irish born player switching to England, I'm sure it would be met with anger by the Northern Ireland fans.

Of course, in order to do that, a Northern Irish born player would need to have an English born parent or grandparent to have a chance of such a switch. I think you'll be a long time waiting to put your question to the test.

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Originally Posted by Olé Olé

A flag which holds sectarian connotations.

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What does that mean, exactly?

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Originally Posted by Olé Olé

where McClean lives, for the most part, the lines between 'protestant' and 'catholic' are fairly black and white.

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Do you mean the lines between where people say their prayers?

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Originally Posted by Olé Olé

No, I'm referring to English-born players. Take Michael Keane switching to the England from Ireland, with worries that Sean McGinty will follow suit.

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Same rules apply.

If we have any player in our set up who harbours realistic ambitions of playing for England at Senior International level, they should do the right thing and chase their dream with England.

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Originally Posted by Olé Olé

How many times must I ask? I'm just wondering are there flags in Windsor Park which make sectarian references? I've never been.

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Please explain what you mean by 'sectarian reference'....give me an example of what would constitute a 'sectarian reference', and I'll deal with your question.

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Originally Posted by geysir

For the record, James is not quoted as saying he was offended by the Union Jack.

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Correct - he is merely uncomfortable with it.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Weren't you disputing this under your more obstinate persona on another forum? Why do you think their appearance will become more prevalent? Is that a good thing or bad thing, in your opinion?

As far as the Union flag is concerned, it's no more or less sectarian than, say, the Irish tricolour. NI fans can wave it all they want; it is their flag, after all.

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1. No, I have never disputed that some Northern Ireland fans bring Union Flags to Northern Ireland matches. I think we will see a few more in future because some fans will object to those they perceive as wishing to see the demise of Northern Ireland giving off about Union Flags at Northern Ireland matches. I'd prefer the Union Flags were not brought, but it doesn't exercise me that they are because it is the flag of Northern Ireland. I would like to see more St Patrick's Crosses at our matches.

2. That's what I said in post #971

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Originally Posted by tricky_colour

Indeed they can, but they can't force people who don't want to play for them to play for them.

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Absolutely correct.

They should focus on players who do want to play for them, and develop those players who dream of a senior international career for Northern Ireland.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

They simply identify as neither British nor Northern Irish and would rather play for the FAI, through whom their national identity is actually channelled.

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No issues with that whatsoever.

Such players should not wear a Northern Ireland shirt, unless they have chased their dream with the FAI and sought a switch to the IFA.

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Originally Posted by micls

Not Brazil: I'm not sure why you differentiate between realistic and unrealistic ambitions. When it comes down to the morality behind it what's the difference?

If a player wants to play for another country, I don't see why if they can or not should change your opinion. Surely you either don't want any players playing for you who want to play for someone else, or you want them all? I doubt there's many 18,19,20 year olds who are confident they'll get capped for their first choice country. I don't see why McClean
hedging his bets is any different from someone less talented doing the same.

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Want I would like to se is very simple.

I would like Northern Irish born players, with boyhood dreams of playing for the South, to contact the FAI at Under 19 level, and ask them to be considered for inclusion in FAI representative sides.

I would like the IFA to select only players who, given a choice, would want to play for Northern Ireland at Senior International level from Under 19 and above.

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Originally Posted by Predator

Clearly, to some, the unionist identity of the Northern Ireland team is vastly more important than cross-community relations. And these same people accuse everyone else of damaging the so-called "cross-community" team.

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I think, to some, they are not prepared to dilute their identity to appease those who wish Northern Ireland and it's international football teams didn't exist - or so they say.

They would tell you, with some validity, that Northern Ireland only exists because of the Union.

They would tell you, with authority, that the IFA is a British Association.

They would also tell you that they will give equal support to any player, regardless of background, who gives his all in a
Northern Ireland shirt - their support of Paddy McCourt, Niall McGinn, Shane Ferguson etc would suggest this to be the case.

I agree with Danny Invincible on this issue of flags etc - they are a red herring.

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Originally Posted by Olé Olé

Why should these players have to contact the FAI? I think they should be treated with normal practice for any other player and be offered a call-up by an association for which they are eligible, namely the FAI.

Obviously, there are caveats in this proposal. But it offers players that are of sufficient quality the opportunity to play with the FAI, because the offer should be made on the football association's part, not on the players part. The FAI's net can be cast on the 32 counties and so selection process should reflect this.

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That's all fine and dandy.

I'd prefer it if players born in Northern Ireland who dream of representing the South made the FAI their first port of call ie. before wearing a Northern Ireland shirt at Under 19 and above.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Same brand of anger or a little less vitriolic?

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I would imagine such a player would be branded a traitor by some fans - I don't envisage such a situation arising anytime soon however.

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Originally Posted by Predator

Yes, indeed. Some would have you believe that it's all James' problem for not warming to the union jacks, god save the queen and the like. He should be proud to play for the country he was born in! The IFA and IFA fans have no responsibility to bear. :confused:

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I fully understand McClean's position.

If I were a devout Irish Republican, I would have issues about playing for Northern Ireland.

My angst with McClean etc is that they did represent Northern Ireland.

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Originally Posted by Predator

Exactly - how it is that fans who cling zealously to the unionist colouring of the Northern Ireland team can hold the governing body of football in the north to ransom puzzles me a little.

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On the Anthem issue, I am unaware that the IFA have sought the opinion of Northern Ireland fans.

Perhaps they should arrange a vote amongst their block bookers - I think the outcome of that would be very tight.

As you know, I'm wholeheartedly in the 'change' camp on that issue - most of those I speak with who want change on the anthem would not cite the appeasement of Republicans as a reason for change.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

I don't know if NI could ever truly be a cross-community entity in the sense that it is a British unionist entity by its very all.

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Exactly - changing flags, Anthem, venue etc will not change that.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Was it just their appearance at Windsor Park you were disputing then?.

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Probably - I'd prefer they weren't brought to Northern Ireland games, but won't be getting too exercised if they are.

I'd prefer the focus was entirely 'Northern Ireland' at our matches, and not 'British'.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Apparently, Gerry did research, although he doesn't go into much detail. Not sure whether or not it was on behalf of the IFA either. He does mention having a brief, so presumably it was.

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To the best of my knowledge, Gerry Armstrong has not formally spoken with the AONISC on the Anthem issue.

As a member of an affiliated SC, I know I have never been asked to vote on the issue.

What was the nature of the specific death threat issued to McClean on Twitter?

I am led to believe that the perpetrator is a 16 year old kid who is mortified that his comments have been taken out of context.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

Poor lad. I feel for him - I really do. I'm welling up just typing this thinking of how upsetting this whole episode has been for the young man.

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I don't feel sorry for him.

I think he should be arrested and charged, together that the other **** who thinks he's Rambo.

Not the brightest using your name on a social network to issue threats and vile abuse.

They should be taught a harsh lesson.

Thought Ivan Little (lifelong Linfield and Northern Ireland supporter) got it spot on in his column today in the Sunday Life about these idiots - 'their bigoted brains must be the size of peas'.