So... what did we think of that lads?
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So... what did we think of that lads?
Haven't read the report but I don't think I can get any more cynical than I am. God, it's depressing having these parish pump gombeen men elected every time without fail.
Without Fáil? :)
Seriously... this is so near the endgame for Meehole now... he's screwed.
Some of the voxpops from Drumcondra today were unreal, though not shocking. How Bertie can still be regarded as a local boy made good flummoxes me.
I think so too. He's moved to quick against Bartholomew imo. He's moved the story on to the conduct of Ministers regarding comments they made in the media about the Tribunal. Including himself (Matt Cooper played an interview with him from 2007, sticking up for Bart), but especially O'Dea (talking communion and confirmation money) and Smith. I also don't think it's a done deal that FF will expel Bart either, given Martin couldn't even get in unanimously past the officers. And if he doesn't, he'd have to resign. Too many old heads still hanging around at the top of the party that went out to bat for Ahern. Thankfully.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
On the wider issue, there's a fair amount of delusion around the current planning process imo, and how it compares now as if it's cleaner. I can point to some rezonings in (the current) Local Area Plans around where I live from the late noughties that make no sense to my (albeit non planning specialist) eyes. Totally coincidentally, the land also happened to be owned by prominent FF supporters. I think the scale of abuse may have changed, but I wish they'd go digging in some of the local area plans within county development plans. imo members of the public should be able to refer what they consider suspect rezonings to an bord pleanala (my understanding is only planning permission decisions can be referred).
€300 million was spent to tell us that the great and the good of the Irish elite, were liars and conmen. Couldn't they have said that at the beginning for free?Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
The surprising thing for me is that people are surprised at it. Irish political culture has always been dominated by, "you scratch me, and I'll scratch you".
Who knows what the World Tour 17 were paid for their receptions and speeches last week?
Blah blah blah.
Anyway Bertie jumped before he was pushed.
http://rte.ie/news/2012/0324/mahon.html
How much has it brought in already in unpaid taxes/ Settlements? With possibly more to come. If you actually bother with the report, it's very much dominated by one particular party. Many of the people brought to book, still do not accept it. If you want to blame someone for the costs, blame the people who challenged it in court (including bart), and the people who framed the terms of reference (FF are attempting to take credit for setting it up).Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
People aren't surprised by the content, they're surprised that someone has actually produced the document. My biggest concern is that commentators/ politicians think the current planning processes around zonings are clean. That wouldn't be my view.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
Yeah, that's comparable to whats in the Mahon report :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
I think most people knew what the general conclusion from the report was going to be, and that's exactly what happened. There was much talk in the media over Bertie and the tribunal in the run-up to the 2007 election, but it barely made a ripple with the electorate and they duly returned FF/Bertie to office.
We didn't need a 15 year multi-million Euro tribunal to tell us that corruption was endemic in Irish politics, we could see it in front of our eyes for free. Last year it was FG, this year it's FF, next year it'll be someone else, and we the public allow it to happen.
Thats true mypost but for the FF diehards - they really do need it in black and white, hard evidence
Absolutely. We all do. "Sure you know what they're like" is part of the problem, it's what things like Mahon are designed to fix.
Yeah it is. You can be sure they didn't travel all those distances to do those gigs for nothing. That culture of undisclosed payments, donations, expenses, backhanders, brown envelopes etc was exposed in the Mahon Report, a culture stretching back decades because, as those who took advantage of it will say, that was "the system" which they "were entitled to" use.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
Despite all the talk of changing the system, it won't be changed. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas and politicians don't willingly give up power and perks. It's the electorate's job to do that.