Printable View
Reading various threads recently I have noticed a substantial amount of dissatisfaction with Trap's decisions both in terms of playing style and personal.
The question is in the title, is he really the magician who took a very limited team to a major tournament or could you have done the same?
Be interesting if this was a poll...
Yeah, blindfolded:)
International football is a doddle
Is €1.2 million a year on the table for my services? If so, the answer is yes :)
It's funny one. I think few managers would have bettered our away results. I think more than a few would have bettered our home results. We were fortunate that Slovakia faded badly, but yet 21 points is - I think - our second best haul ever.
I sense a Football Manager challenge afoot. Might be too simple though - qualify by only picking LOI players, that'd be a good one.
noone else in the group won in Armenia, for one thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I'd probably be classed as a Trapophile, but the question posed in the OP isn't really fair! :) If you were to ask would another manager have achieved the same, then that's a better question. And it's a question I'd answer with a: YES.
I don't buy into the issue of what managers would want to manage us. There are enough managers that have worked at a high enough level, and won trophies that would happily manage us for two years with the wages Trap is on - just because our media are unable to switch their gaze from the bowels of England and open their minds doesn't mean they are not other options!
If you were to take a list of all the players that could be considered fair-game for a call-up, I dunno the top 50, the squad shapes up ok, considering we're totally dependent on almost one league. It's no better or worse than the majority of tier two and three nations that we're judged against.
Two very good goalkeeping options - a very good range of strikers, from the bulky to the pacey, the nimble to the skillful; technically good options on the wings. It nearly always comes back to the centre of the pitch, and the formation that we employ. Despite what he said the other night about Keane, we employ a 442. It seems to me that the management, and maybe the players themselves believe we're not capable of playing with any other system, despite 442 being the minority in football generally. I really would like to see the 4231 or 433 being given a shot. I think we have the options within a squad to cater for it.
We also have a flexible defensive group which probably lessens the need for 8 defenders in a group of 23 (even more so when Coleman can be utilised at right back if needs be), allowing an extra midfielder.
With the options we have in midfield (Whelan, Andrews, McCarthy, Gibson, Fahey, Meyler, Green, Hoolahan) we have players that can sit, players that score goals, players that are good on the ball, and aggressive players. It is a pity Meyler hasn't recuperated in time, as he isn't a realistic candidate at present, but if he was I'd like to see a duo of either himself, Whelan, McCarthy or Fahey in a holding role, with either Andrews, Gibson, or Wes advanced. This would have to be supplemented by two relatively attacking full-backs, which could allow for Coleman in this scenario, or Foley given his comfort on the ball, with Ward the other side. This would be topped off with two wide attackers - take your pick from McGeady, McClean, Duff or even Doyle - and a man up top.
That's just one example. I think he's really dug a hole for himself by having Robbie as captain - he's virtually undroppable. I'm not calling for him to be dropped either, but he's having to fit Robbie into team/system, even if the team/system isn't necessarily suited to him. He doesn't have that issue if he has Given or Dunne as captain.
I really hope in June we're not looking back with real disappointment at how we fared - we've never done poorly in a finals - Euro 88 was an excellent performance, despite not making the knock-outs, for a novice country up against it - and that is something that will come to the fore as we get closer to June I think.
A bit of a ramble, sorry,
Exactly - and had we not played there first, I'm not sure we would have either. Personally at the start of the group I would have been disappointed with not winning there - just as with Macedonia, but had we played there after Russia or Slovakia, then it would have been positive to come away with a draw.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Also it can't be overlooked just how unusual our group was. Slovakia were absolutely atrocious as 2nd seeds, yet we only took 2 points from them - we would have deserved victory in Zilina imo, and could have snatched 3 points in Dublin - even looking at other groups - in 6/8 I think we would have struggled. a lot of if#s and but's I appreciate.
I don't like the Trap bashing myself. Only the second time ever we've qualified for this competition and some people are still not happy.
Anyone who answers yes to this is showing their naivety, and contrary to what every forum would have you believe management isn't just picking a teamsheet. If you're still unconvinced I'd suggest asking unbiased non-Irish what they think of our squad and how they'd rate Traps record of two playoff places with that bunch.
Estonia and Armenia? Jesus Kerr n McCartney were bloody unlucky.
If he is a genius of a manager why were so many on the fence before the armenia game, including on here and in the FAI which held back from giving him a new contract?
Stats and stats don't hide the fact of the awful football and the general publics apathy with the team which is amazing to see for a person who grew up in the Charlton era.
Public apathy doesn't bother me hugely. I'll be loving every minute of our games at the Euros. If you're an Irish football supporter, they'll just be a continuation of your long-term interest anyway. If others aren't interested, their loss. To be honest, if people who would have difficulty getting behind the team based on the brand of football we play, in spite of the fact we're playing at our first finals for a decade (hello?!), wish to remain apathetic, it's not something that'll keep me up at night. They're no big loss to those who'll be enjoying themselves with a genuine interest. In saying that, I do think the national buzz will be truly back in force come June.
Or some people who think we could still qualify by playing decent football, and not follow any old rubbish. Like the ole ole brigade
We haven't played 'decent football' throughout a group since the 1982 qual campaign.
We could try though.
Dont know, we did try some good stuff under Mick, no? Albeit there was a lot of awful stuff too.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Attractive football? Like the snorefest that Arcelona play? Tap tap tap, no. The sky league shows the way, lump and run, chase, hit, batter. We take our cue from the other Irish big ball sports, Gaelic and Rugby, except that Gaelic is now becoming more like the boring Italian/Spanish negative style, instead of half forwards shooting for 30 yards for points. Ireland play dogged Italian football that is allied to what he do best, get stuck in, and besides, there isn't the creative element in our or the British game that we can let loose - nobody does, and win! I want to see my national team or club team be successful, bring through players and give it 100%, if I want entertainment I stick on an Adam Sandler movie.
Dunphy is trying his best to hype himself up (and rte and the meeja are joining in as it sells advertising) but he should be ashamed of himself. He showed his true lack of intelligence this week and 20minutes ago I tried to listen to his interview again. He has been anti-Ireland since his buddy Gilesy was overlooked for the Ireland job (Jack got it) and he would have tried to be his number 2. This is Dunphy, who rubbishes the local game and has tried to tag along with any controversy to boost his failing bank balance. Without him and his cheerleaders/sycophants in the meeja this thread wouldn't have oxygen.
We qualified, we players almost solely playing in poor leagues, hyped to hell by sky, and we have to get a grounding in reality. I had the fortune to see 2 of Traps sides play in Frankfurt (Bayern and VFB) and they always gave it their all. He did a great job to get Ireland qualified from the toughest group on offer, we need to do as Keane says and get over it.
The most attractive football (I don't buy into "good stuff" being entertaining, "good stuff" is what wins matches, no matter how ugly it is!) I can remember Ireland playing was under McCarthy, but he had different players at his disposal.
Mick loved to get the full backs involved up the wings, but he had Gary Kelly, Carr, Harte, and Staunton who were very well suited to doing that, as well as central midfielders like Holland, Kinsella, and Roy Keane, who gave us the stability in the centre of the park to allow the full backs to bomb forwards. He also tended to play Kilbane at left wing, and McAteer or Kelly on the right, all players far more capable tracking back than Trap's best options of McGeady and Duff, so we could overlap a lot more effectively without leaving ourselves exposed. (Or any more exposed than we already were with Ian Harte on the pitch).
The only wide players I can think off offhand suitable to playing that sort of system at Trap's disposal now are Coleman and perhaps Lawrence, to a degree, so we'd need two more in that mould to even think about playing the McCarthy system. And even then, Andrews and Whelan in the centre of the park are a much weaker prospect than Kinsella and Holland, or either one of those two paired with Roy Keane.
And finally, there's the fact that Keane and Duff, our two real game-changers from 2002, are not the players they were back then, and as good as Doyle is, he doesn't have the capacity to terrify defences with his presence like Niall Quinn could.
So essentially what I am trying to say is that if McCarthy had had the players Trap now has at his disposal, he would have to change his system to one that was a lot less entertaining.
International football is rubbish - this talk of squads is rubbish. Greece and Denmark won the Euros. Korea got to a WC semis and the recent African nations was entertaining but lacked any real quality. Apart from Spain and Germany, maybe a Messi inspired Argentina please tell me what teams are great to watch, what teams are loaded with star quality? More or less any team on their day can get a good performance.
My point is we would have also qualified playing good football rather than hoof the ball. (yes give me Barcelona over Stoke all day!! apart from their cheating!)
Spud - hardest group, what!!! We got one of the easiest.
Benno, Russia are great in qualifying with better players than us. Slovakia were at the last World Cup with players in better leagues than ours and were 2nd favourites. Armenia were 1 qualifying too early with some terrifically good young players produced thanks to long term, far sighted domestic club policies (most notably Mika). Macedonia have very good players and are never easy to visit and have given everyone problems. Andorra, well, they make up the numbers. Though I should have said, one of the hardest, Group H would have been the worst.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
Russia were the only good team, and they are always hot n cold. The fact we havent beaten a top 16 team in years says something.