World Cup 2014 Group C Qualification Fixtures Meeting - Frankfurt 17/18 November 2011

Ok so I know we have the little matter of a Euro 2012 playoff aganst Estonia to occupy our minds at the moment but I thought I would flag the fixtures meeting for our World Cup group that is taking place in Frankfurt next Thursda (November 17/18 2011), if only to put people on notice for booking flights before they skyrocket in price in the aftermath of the fixtures meeting.

http://greenscene.me/2011/10/world-c...-for-november/

What strategy should the FAI be armed with for the meeting?

Do we want the big guns Germany and Sweden at the start, perhaps catch them on a Euro 2012 hangover (worked in WC 2002 group with Holland and Portugal but failed in Euro 2004 group losing both opening games to Russia and Switzerland; our Saipan hangover.)

Or do we want to start off against the minnows Kazakhstan and Faroe Islands? This worked for us in the WC 2010 group (kicking off against Georgia and Montenegro) and also in the Euro 2012 group, where we started against Armenia and Andorra.

It might be taken out of our hands like it was in this group. Ironically enough it was Armenia who protested about coming to Dublin on the June Weekend, which threw the fixtues out, and led to Uefa doing their thing via the seedings, which meant Armenia travelled to Dublin last.

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Originally Posted by French Toasht

What strategy should the FAI be armed with for the meeting?
Do we want the big guns Germany and Sweden at the start, perhaps catch them on a Euro 2012 hangover (worked in WC 2002 group with Holland and Portugal but failed in Euro 2004 group losing both opening games to Russia and Switzerland; our Saipan hangover.)
Or do we want to start off against the minnows Kazakhstan and Faroe Islands? This worked for us in the WC 2010 group (kicking off against Georgia and Montenegro) and also in the Euro 2012 group, where we started against Armenia and Andorra.

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The 'hangover' tactic also worked for us in '98 v Croatia!
Its a tough one though. I remember being so optimistic for that Russia game in 2002 - after all, they had been pretty poor in the finals - but we were crushed. I'm now so used to us not being at a finals that we haven't had to consider our own hangovers for a while! But (please please please...) its something we should factor in for next Autumn!

I think our fixtures for the last two tournaments have started well - ie. get some points on the board. With hindsight a masterstroke to travel to Armenia early in the campaign. If we have to play any of the higher seeds in the first round of games then i'd rather play Germany. I think we can compete with them on a one-on-one basis, but over the course of a campaign i'd always back them to top a group. Their record speaks for itself, its formidable. I think we should be really focused on the Swedish (in particular) and Austrian games as they're going to be crucial. And the way it worked in this campaign - having Russia/Slovakia back to back both times - should be avoided; too much pressure over the course of 5 days.

Two more things - the Kazakh trip will be epic - so i'd suggest it should be a stand alone fixture? And do the Faroes still have to avoid the winter for their home games?

So how about something like:

Sept 2012 - Kazakh (h); Germany (a)
Oct 2012 - Austria (a); Faroes (h)
March 2013 - Sweden (h)
June 2013 - Kazakh (a)
Sept 2013 - Faroes (a); Austria (h)
Oct 2013 - Sweden (a); Germany (h)

Hmm, not sure about those last two fixtures, but i ran out of steam halfway through :p

We really are in for a very tough fixture list next campaign. I can't see us doing it, the best losing out in a play-off.

I'd take Sweden and Faroe Islands away first, Austria home and Germany away second. Get em out of the way and see what we're made of - if we hit 7-8 points, it'd be a pretty good start.

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Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

I'd take Sweden and Faroe Islands away first, Austria home and Germany away second. Get em out of the way and see what we're made of - if we hit 7-8 points, it'd be a pretty good start.

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I'm interested by your idea of 'getting them out of the way'. Does it make a difference? I just dont quite get your reasons (happy to hear them though!).
I'm keen to get the 'minnow' home games in early in order to get points on the board. As for playing the bigger nations away from home - on recent form we're better away from home anyway, esp if Trap's still in charge. So you could argue that saving the crucial home matches til the Autumn of 2013 isnt that much of an advantage anyway.

I think the Sweden ties are the most important of the bunch and wouldnt fancy having the away match as our first fixture, at all.

PS. 7 points is the absolute minimum i'd want out of SvD's opening fixtures. Full points from the home games (we HAVE to aim to beat Austria.. though how many times have we said stuff like that recently?!) and then a draw and a loss in Sweden and Germany?

I'd say a decent start would have to involve 8 points and two away draws, though we'd want to aim for better if we're looking to qualify.

Will be interesting to see who retires. If we make Euro and do well, there will be some momentum unless half our team calls it a day Internationally.
Damn would love to go to Brasil in the Summer of 14 to watch Ireland in the WC. Then stop in Venezuela and find a wife.

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Originally Posted by Tipp Townie

I'm interested by your idea of 'getting them out of the way'. Does it make a difference? I just dont quite get your reasons (happy to hear them though!).
I'm keen to get the 'minnow' home games in early in order to get points on the board. As for playing the bigger nations away from home - on recent form we're better away from home anyway, esp if Trap's still in charge. So you could argue that saving the crucial home matches til the Autumn of 2013 isnt that much of an advantage anyway.

I think the Sweden ties are the most important of the bunch and wouldnt fancy having the away match as our first fixture, at all.

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Under McCarthy, we really went after the tough games first and it generally worked. Out campaigns got off to good starts against top opposition such as Holland and Croatia. I'd rather to the game to these people early on than build momentum via the smaller games, which can lead to an undeserved feeling of overconfidence.

I'll agree, it's high risk. We don't get the results, we're on the back foot immediately. But we should have the confidence in our ability to know we can turn that situation around if the worst happens. Besides with those early fixtures we have the opportunity to take six from Faroes and Austria (while also getting the always tricky Faroe away game over) while having a go at Sweden and Germany. There's no point waiting to play them.

Your point on our away form is fair enough, but I'd rather have us in front of our home fans towards the end of the campaign against the likes of Sweden.

Let's not play Sweden first then, let's play them third - I don't think it really matters. But get that away game done and dusted early on. At worst we'll know what we have to do in the run-in.

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Originally Posted by Tipp Townie

PS. 7 points is the absolute minimum i'd want out of SvD's opening fixtures. Full points from the home games (we HAVE to aim to beat Austria.. though how many times have we said stuff like that recently?!) and then a draw and a loss in Sweden and Germany?

I'd say a decent start would have to involve 8 points and two away draws, though we'd want to aim for better if we're looking to qualify.

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Allowing for defeat to Germany, 7 points would be a good start. I think even losing to Sweden wouldn't be all that much of a disaster - they'll drop points too. We have to beat Faroes and Austria.

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Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

Under McCarthy, we really went after the tough games first and it generally worked. Out campaigns got off to good starts against top opposition such as Holland and Croatia. I'd rather to the game to these people early on than build momentum via the smaller games, which can lead to an undeserved feeling of overconfidence.

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I think that's just longstanding FAI policy, not particular to McCarthy. I remember playing France away early under Kerr, Germany away under Stan. Not sure why it changed for Trap's first campaign, but I think they tried to get Russia and Slovakia early last time out?

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

I think that's just longstanding FAI policy, not particular to McCarthy. I remember playing France away early under Kerr, Germany away under Stan. Not sure why it changed for Trap's first campaign, but I think they tried to get Russia and Slovakia early last time out?

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The fixtures meeting took place before Trapattoni was appointed, so he didn't have anything to do with it.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

I think that's just longstanding FAI policy, not particular to McCarthy. I remember playing France away early under Kerr, Germany away under Stan. Not sure why it changed for Trap's first campaign, but I think they tried to get Russia and Slovakia early last time out?

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Yah just mean regardless of who implemented it, it seemed to really come to the fore when McCarthy was in charge.

Would love to see us start with two away games in Kazakhstan and the Faroes. I think that set of fixtures has served us well in both of Trap's campaigns. We have been characteristically solid against the weaker opposition whilst less than convincing against the seeded sides. If we are going into the second week of fixtures with a lead over Sweden that will give us the momentum to push on and maybe scrape a home draw against ze Germans and a draw here at the Råsunda. I think its going to be tough whatever outcome the fixtures throw up. Toughest group we have had since Portugal and Holland in 2002.

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Originally Posted by French Toasht

Would love to see us start with two away games in Kazakhstan and the Faroes

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I get your reasons why, but i think this is a big risk in terms of travel time, and neither are the most comfortable trips either (i assume... having not been); amplified when done as a double-header.

The current campaign was exclusively a home-away combo for the double headers - and it has mainly worked well for us. I say we should stick with it.

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Originally Posted by Tipp Townie

The current campaign was exclusively a home-away combo for the double headers - and it has mainly worked well for us. I say we should stick with it.

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That only happened because of the Armenian's being stubborn and FIFA doing the fixtures for the group. Usually there's agreement so I'll be surprised if that happens again (unless the countries happen to think that pattern suits them all best).

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Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

That only happened because of the Armenian's being stubborn and FIFA doing the fixtures for the group. Usually there's agreement so I'll be surprised if that happens again (unless the countries happen to think that pattern suits them all best).

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Yeah i know. But it worked well for us, so we might aswell aim for something similar eh! It might not happen for every double-header, but it'd be particularly useful in some instances (imho - to make sure we dont have two long journeys stuck together in the space of 5 days)

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Originally Posted by Tipp Townie

Yeah i know. But it worked well for us, so we might aswell aim for something similar eh! It might not happen for every double-header, but it'd be particularly useful in some instances (imho - to make sure we dont have two long journeys stuck together in the space of 5 days)

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Certainly. The only realistic away double headers are Germany/Austria and Sweden/Faroes (the former more than the latter). From a travel point-of-view Germany/Austria would be nice, although not convinced from a playing point-of-view!

I think the FAI are all about big home and away double headers. For example they will be eager to couple a home double header of the Germans and the Faroes, and a prerequisite for the securing tickets for the Germany match would require attendance at the Faroes game. I also think they will be looking for the Germany/ Austria double header. On the issue of home/away games working well, I'm not convinced. I wouldn't particularly like to play in Kazakhstan on a Friday night and have to return to Dublin to face one of the big guns on a Tuesday.

I'm all about trying to segregate the fixtures into 2 away double headers and 2 home double headers. Makes sense from a footballing, fans, travel and logistics point of view.

I was just having a flick back through recent campaigns where we've had an away double-header. Cyprus/Andorra in March 2001 is the only example i've found of two wins for us. Otherwise:

EC 04 - Georgia/Albania - 4 pts
EC 08 - Slovakia/Czech - 1 pt
WC 10 - Georgia (sort of!)/Montenegro - 4 pts

And before someone says it, no Holland/Portugal wasn't a double header - though it felt like it! Apols if i've missed any others.

I suppose i'm saying the above stats suggest that away dh's aren't a good idea. Maybe.

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Originally Posted by Tipp Townie

EC 04 - Georgia/Albania - 4 pts
EC 08 - Slovakia/Czech - 1 pt
WC 10 - Georgia (sort of!)/Montenegro - 4 pts

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I think the first and third examples are examples of jobs well done. The middle example, well that can be explained in two words: Steve Staunton.