James McCarthy has been called into the U21 squad for the Feb 9th game v Cyprus. This is a bad joke and surely brings into question not only Trapatonni's judgement but suggests he holds ridiculous grudges against certain players. With such a small pool of players to choose from we can't afford to be upsetting/demotting players like McCarthy. If this decision is not reversed then Trapatonni has to go.
Ive gone from being one of Traps biggest supporters to wondering if you might be right Noely. The situation with McCarthy might be the final nail in the coffin for my respect for the man
I was also a big admirer Razor. But his recent decisions/tactics/selections are becoming ridiculous. We desperately need players like McCarthy and this is no way to treat very good player. The treatment of Andy Reid and now this. We don't have a conveyor belt of talented players. Trap has to be called on this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
I don't think one thing can make a manager be up fir the sack noely that's just hyperbole.
That's not the case though here.
bit of an overreaction but still...baffling. :confused:
Haven't been convinced by Trap for a long time and as stated McCarthy's exclusion is bizarre.
totally agree. We thought Paris might be the start of a bright new era after the type of football we played that night.I was excited about the campaign but we have gone backwards. I wasnt looking for a massive overhaul of the team because I thought we were good enough with some minor changes.McCarthy and Coleman have been probably our best 2 players in the Premiership this season and one of them not in the squad and the other one has already been told that he will be a sub and will only come on as a right back because thats where Trap thinks he is best, totally against everything we have seen of him so far.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar
It might have been an over reaction if this was the first time something like this hadnt happened already but it is starting to look way too similar to the Andy Reid situation.If Paul Green is good enough to be in the squad then a 10% fit James McCarthy should be
I think the majority of fans, from my perspective on the topic are losing faith in the manager, not only cause of tactics but of player selection, Trap in truth has never put the down strongest 11 players for a match and the more he keeps on doing this, the more the fans will lose confidence in him.
I believe this is a very, very cynical ploy by Trapatonni. For whatever reason he has a grudge against McCarthy ala Andy Reid. But unlike the Reid situation he can't be seen (again) to totally exclude another player. The vagueness about McCarthy at the press conference the other day and now the inclusion in the u21 squad leads me to believe that Trap wants McCarthy to pull out. And maybe Stephen Ireland's account of what went on in his meeting with Trap is not now so unbelievable.
Time to go
Storm in a teacup?
Definitely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
I lost faith last year. The grumbles have been there since the Russian game. A few of the posters I respect on here have also lost the faith (you can just tell by the tone of their posts without them saying flat out that the Trap might not necessarily be the best thing for us right now....) so I don't think it's a total knee jerk reaction.
The reliance on 4-4-2 when we are getting dicked in midfield drives me absolutely insane. I can see it, the crowd can see it but our management team?
Look we'll stumble along, finish second, get knocked out on away goals in the play offs and all shrug our shoulders and say well didn't we do well to get to a play off? Meanwhile McCarthy is sitting at home watching the game on tv whilst Paul Green/Andrews and Whelan are passing the ball sideways.
Firstly, I do think this thread is over the top. trapattoni won't lose his job anytime soon, and Ireland will have nothing to gain by sacking him.
But it does raise some interesting debate around the general malaise surrounding Trapattonis tenure at the moment. Hopefully this thread won't be resurrected after the Macedonia game for purposes of "I told you so!" Noely wouldn't do that. :rolleyes:
It's interesting that McCarthy is the straw that breaks the camels back for a lot of you. I'm not far behind ye mind, I just think its an over reaction, but one you are perfectly entitled to.
I remember when Trapattoni was mooted as a possible for the managers job and we were warned that we were going to get an ultra conservative manager who stuck to his tactics no matter what and often alienated some of his more talented players. How true those predictions were.
I think we are focusing too much on player selection or non selection as the case may be. We've performed well under Trap but its a largely held view that those performances, Paris particularly, were player driven rather than great managerial work. What needs to happen now, is for Senior Players, notably the ones coming to their last campaigns, need to step up and take responsibility. They risk the wrath of Giovanni, but so be it, they are playing for their country, not for Giovanni.
The most notable contrast between players who seem to have fallen out with Giovanni, and players who he loves, is their willingness to follow orders. Green, Andrews, Kilbane, Long, Vs A Reid, McCarthy etc. If Trap tells the full backs and midfielders to get the ball to the front two as quick as possible, and they don't do it, preferring to play a little football in between, Trap gives out ****. You've seen it yourself, him gesticulating on the sideline, making that arced loop arm movement "get it forward, get it forward". He doesn't trust us to hold on to the ball, the problem is, when he picks Green and Kilbane, I don't trust us either.
So we're in a catch 22, if we get rid of him now, we've no hope of qualifying, but if he keeps up his tactics, we've a minimal chance of qualifying. All we can hope is that the players stand up and take responsibility.
## Its probably better that he doesn't call up McCarthy, there's a real risk he'd coach the football out of him.
Including Long is a little bit unfair on him, but he's the sort of player he likes, will do the dirty work.
i think my opinion on Trappatoni is well documented at this stage. I havent felt he is the appropriate manager for the last 18 months or so. That said he should only be fired once we do not qualify for 2012. If McCarthy switches allegiances in the meantime then he gets the boot imo.
A manager should only ever be sacked on the basis of results, never on the decision of selection, or non-selection, of a player. To suggest otherwise is ludicrous.
In any case, to start screaming "Trap out" or whatever, without suggesting a credible replacement reeks the worst of tabloid mob mentality
Paul Green named in senior squad, McCarthy in the U21's. If my old man was making decisions like that I'd be on Google looking up 'senility'. McCarthy isn't some hot prospect ala Conor Clfford, he's the best midfielder we have performing in the premier league and should be an automatic squad selection. Our dissent counts for little though and I expect criticism from sports writers and the like (how many of them will actually notice?) to be negligible. Trap's position certainly won't become untenable because of it.
I'd also count myself among those who admired Trap but there are some facets of his modus operandi that are starting to grate.
There's a certain degree of egotism about Trap, no doubt the result of being Giovanni Trapattoni and all that entails. The cynic in me did wonder if Coleman's non-appearance against Norway was Trap's response to the enthusiasm surrounding the player and the clamour to see him in action. I'd worry that he's prepared to put his stamp of authority above the good of the team. Punishing the likes of Reid and McCarthy would be a prime example, as would his rigid opinions on various players best positions (Coleman, Clark etc.) The unavailability of Stephen Ireland, that luxury playmaker slash incurable l@nger, sits well with his system but it's another concern that he may see McCarthy as similarly ill-fitting. I'd hate to think he's missing out because of his progressive tendencies and failure to fit the 'midfield grafter' mold. Which is not to say he doesn't cover ground and put in a tackle, to my eye he has a superb all-round game. But...Whelan, Andrews, Green, McCarthy: spot the odd one out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar
Agreed. That's what he'll ultimately be judged on.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
I don't think his selections are as endemically poor as others believe, not in terms of the squad at least. But the omission of McCarthy is worrying albeit a decision I'm accepting at face value for now. Wishful thinking to suppose his team selections could get more adventurous but that'd be my main gripe. Altogether I'm sticking to the fence until at least post Macedonia, things could get considerably worse or better after those games.
Even with qualification, I'd be surprised if this wasn't his final campaign.
Green. The other three can kick a ball. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Sullivinho
Ya and what have his results been we all know how poor France and Italy were they were found out in the last world cup.we got hammered at home in a competitive game Aw bad as any as i can remember 3-o.we couldn't beat a poor Slovakia on the night and some friendly results have been terrible.