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I'm just wondering what the general consensus is on the PNE player Adam Barton - the kid who has been called up by Worthington after previously withdrawing from a squad in order to remain eligible for England. Is he more deserving of a cap than say, a less talented player who is committed?
I just noticed that he is in the starting lineup.
In my opinion, no. Worthy shouldn't have chosen him for this squad.
Understand the question, but why would it relate to the IL, except negatively?
Anyway, good to see the IFA have stopped being hypocrites, though as ever we should all be mindful people can always jump ship until they play a competitive game.
Am presuming AB would also be eligible for us, so another reason to keep his options open??
;)
If he was, say, a Jamie O'Hara or an Owen Hargreaves, I might be more worried about him getting a second chance etc. But he's still only a teenager and who knows what influences he has been under (Agent, PNE etc)?Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
Also, we do not know exactly what has gone on between him and Worthington (or more accurately Beaglehole, who seems to have been most proactive in persuading him).
Had it been the last friendly before our next Euro Qualifiers, I'd have said it was the wrong time for us to be going the extra mile etc.
Or had we been coming down with even half-suitable other midfielders, then I might have made him wait. But he wasn't actually in the original squad i.e. he was only called up when we had 7 or 8 withdrawals. And even then I'm not sure he was expecting to start the game.
Some (many?) NI fans are indignant at the principle of our chasing players to cap, rather than the other way around, but in the circumstances, I'm not so bothered. After all, we have had entirely "native" players like George McCartney (Shankill Road born-and-bred) whose commitment has proven suspect. By contrast, we have had others with much more tenuous links (Maik Taylor) who've developed into absolute stalwarts.
Maybe with a wee bit of encouragement, Barton might prove to one of the latter. But if, instead, he's one of the former, what have we lost - a couple of caps in meaningless friendlies?
After the first wave of withdrawals, we called up some more players, including Barton. Then after the weekend's games, we lost some more, so we called up a second set of replacements. Two of the "second wave" (Little of Rangers and O'Connor of Scunthorpe) then picked up a virus in the camp: Little has been sent home again and O'Connor might only make the bench!Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
Quite honestly, we have had so many withdrawals (14?) it may have been between Barton or Worthington himself for the last place in the starting XI!
I am unsure whether he qualifies for NI via a parent, or via a grandparent. If it is the latter, then he's not eligible for ROI, if it's the former he might be, but I can't see that ever coming into play, somehow.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
No hypocrisy at all, either formerly or now.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
You see, we have only ever sought to pick players who were born within our territory, or had a parent/grandparent who was, or who qualified after suitable residency*.
Similarly, we have never objected at other Associations, including the FAI, who have followed the same principle.
What we have objected to is another Association being permitted to pick players who met none of the above criteria, by exploiting a legal technicality that was never intended to have anything to do with football, or its ethics.
Therefore, we would only be/have been "hypocrites" if we were, for example, to pick GB-born players without the requisite ancestry/residence, on the basis that they are British citizens etc, just the same as people from NI are.
In other words, it is only hypocritical when double standards are employed; you know, like these proud Irishmen who will do anything for a United Oireland except live in the bloody place.
Sound familiar, Adios?
* - Hasn't actually happened yet, afaiaa.
I've posted it here, because this is a forum devoted to so-called 'Norn Iron fans' and I was interested in the reaction to Barton. If I had posted it in the 'Ireland' section it would probably have been removed. Maybe not.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
True enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
I agree to an extent, in the sense that it's not the end of the world, although I get the impression that Worthington is almost desperately trying to sell 'Brand Norn Iron' to Barton by starting him, perhaps yielding to pressure from an agent or otherwise. In general though, I feel it's best to leave the player to fulfill their own desires i.e. don't waste time trying to persuade them to stick around when they're stalling or have made their decision.Quote:
Maybe with a wee bit of encouragement, Barton might prove to one of the latter. But if, instead, he's one of the former, what have we lost - a couple of caps in meaningless friendlies?
Have the IFA found that Gentleman's Agreement yet?Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Predator,
Should have left this **** in the 'Eligibility thread!
Would those be the same double standards that see people claiming to support the North living in W.London?? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
As for the rest, need to refer to the responses to certain ill-informed nonsense in the 'Eligibility' thread. And realise even the IFA accept the CAS ruling et al.
Also need to check out the roots of some of the people who have played for the North, have been approached or who the IFA want to play in the future.
At least they are now being pragmatic, unlike some delusional purists I know.
Finally, the oblique Spanish reference, typically makes no sense.
No they havent.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
Mind you this imaginary "gentlemans agreement" kind of guff comes from the same type of NI Unionist who thinks he is about to bale out the ROI with his taxes, unaware of the multi-billion pounds worth of English taxpayers money it takes to keep his little Ulstertopia running every year!!
Probably... :pQuote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
NW enlarges upon his thinking in this interview. I've enboldened the bit I thought most interesting:Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
Worthington will hand a first cap to Preston midfielder Adam Barton as he attempts to lure the player away from England.
The 19-year-old, who is eligible for both countries, rejected a competitive call-up last month in order to keep open the option of representing England.
Playing in a friendly, however, would not prevent him changing allegiance at a later date and, after he agreed to join up, Worthington is determined to make him feel welcome.
He said: "We have got to have respect for the young lad and his decision.
"We invited him in a month ago and somebody talked to him to say don't go. "But we do what we do best, we keep chipping away, encouraging.
"All we can do is make him feel welcome, show him what we have got, sell ourselves in the best light.
"If that is good enough at the end of the day, great. If for whatever reason he or anybody should go elsewhere, good luck to them.
"We are doing our work to unearth young players - that is the way it has got to be.
"We have got to look at every possible opportunity to see who is available. "We haven't got sufficient numbers in this country or are we producing players on a regular basis to maintain where we want to be."
http://www.teamtalk.com/northern-ire...r-NI-hole-role
I don't support "the North" [sic], I support Northern Ireland, since that is where I was born. The fact that I live outside NI is no more relevant than that 95%+ of the NI players also do so, including Adam Barton, for instance.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
This is replicated with many international teams, including ROI.
As for my living in W.London, as a British citizen, I support the principle of a United Kingdom. As such, I have always lived, worked and paid my taxes etc in the UK - I have never wanted to live anywhere else, despite having other opportunities.
I believe as an Irish citizen you support* a United Ireland... :rolleyes:
* - I use the term "support" in the theoretical sense, not in any practical sense.
Don't worry, perhaps it makes sense in other parts, say Andytown?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Except it does represent the North of Ireland, so it's hardly [sic] but accept you do use that funny 'official' name. ;)
Not sure what wanting to be a British citizen and residing there, has to do with being a fan of that team, either? Or is it now a pre-requisite??
As for a 'united Ireland', am a supporter of the cricket team which was ever thus. And take a passing interest in the two rugby teams, the boxing & hockey teams who are quite happy to be declared such. So what?
Finally, as ever, no idea about the usual cryptic reference, in this instance to Beal-feirste....
Any chance of any translation??
Whats your point caller?Quote:
Originally Posted by dantheman
He can f#ck right off if he wants to play for england, but we'll welcome him if he opts for us......same with the youth players you "southerners" poachedQuote:
Originally Posted by Predator
Think Dan's point was the one of Hypocrisy, not to mention 'paranoia' ....
And 'Southerners' is a quaint concept they seem to use across the water!
I used "southerners" in a completely different context to that which you imagine.
Yeah obviously, please do 'enlighten' us ??
That's very kind of you, I'm sure he'll appreciate that. However, it doesn't appear to be a sentiment that is very widely held. In fact, I think that the issue has IFA fans in two camps. Some, like EG and yourself, happily welcome any boost to the playing pool, whereas I've read of others, such as the ever vociferous Owen Polley, expressing severe unease on the issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnaghRed
"Southerners"? That's a weak, badly veiled dig if ever I've seen one. Do you mean the Football Association of Ireland?
With regard to your use of the term 'poaching', I can only express weariness, for its use has become increasingly tiresome. I thought that IFA fans were beginning to see the big picture, especially after the CAS case, but no, some people continue to feel that players born with dual nationality are somehow the property of one association.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Either way he is eligible. A grandparent born in any part of Ireland estblishes right to citizenship and also ROI qualification. I am pretty sure this is how Jason McAteer qualified for ROI through belfast born grand parent.