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Apart from any party loyalties anybody might have, the blatent lies and disgusting hectoring of the present "Government" must surely be approaching the absolute nadir of politics in this country.
Just how far down into the gutter do Ahern and McDowell want to drag us all?
:(
As far as we're willing to go. Which means too far already.
Anyway, off to the match - COME ON CITY!
Maybe they'll just rig the electronic voting?
Anyone catch the recent news of hidden report on large mismatches in the number of votes recorded electronically by paper in the last General Election? Sounded like 10% of votes...
:eek:
As far as the system (and the people of this country) will allow them to. Which seems quite far indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by patsh
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Originally Posted by brendy_éire
I think people dont realise how bad it is and just put up with it. People dont have anything to compare it to and aswell as that ... people just dont have time to give it any thought so the party of the day just give it some convoluted speil and clean up around the edges and then get away with it.
Some things never change. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Conor74
From what I hear bribes are out now with "favours" more popular.Quote:
Originally Posted by Conor74
I still cannot believe how Bertie has managed to avoid investigation yet given he was the man signing the cheques in the 80's & almost every senior FF politician that surrounded him then has been shown or alleged to be corrupt.
Still if as they say we get the government you deserve cos we (collective) elect them.
:(
Sure it must be as good as it can get, it's better than the 1980's.... Thanks for that Conor, all is forgiven - we should throw a big party in Punchestown...
You have personal experience with this Conor? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Conor74
I have to agree with patsh. Our political leadership are the worst in the world.
Why can't we have someone decent like Tony Blair (labour leader who introduces education fees and leads country into non-justifiable war), GW Bush (need I say more?), Berlusconi (Mr. Honesty), etc.
Face it, politicians leave a lot to be desired all over the world. And if you don't like the current crop, then get out and vote for an alternative.
brendy_éire can give you some direction on alternatives. ;) :rolleyes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conor74
Did you see Prime Time the other night ..... Seems a percentage of those houses will be built but the buyers cant afford them. The Irish public are now meant to be living out way beyond their means, and it ain't all by choice, but thats the publics fault.
Start taxin' that horsey crowd too i'd say .... stupid money being made there and it is all good for the boys. It is like Columbia but not as much cocaine !!
:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Conor74
I remember it well. I was on the streets of this country with thousands of others pleading for a fair taxation system, a fair health system and a fair housing system.
Meanwhile, in the few chic resturants and hotels of this country, but mostly the incredibly expensive establishments of France and elsewhere, emperor Haughey was laughing at us and how easy it was to fleece the plebs by the simple device of turning Ireland into his own tuppeny happeny banana fiefdom. Were you bringing up the 80s to show us another time when FF dragged us so far down ?
Typical FFer, the few years FG/Labour spent in Government are to blame for everything. The fact that Lynch & Co pretty much bankrupted the country is filed with all the other items in the FF amnesia closet.
But back to today.
Lets ignore the corrupt way that McCreevy gets personal projects built in his constituency. Lets ignore that FF treat the civil service of this country as its personal sectratarial service, (a common feature of the old totalitarian regimes in Eastern Europe). Lets forget that so many members of the FF party daily traipse up to all the tribunals to show just how corrupt and slimey they really are.
FF and you Conor would claim that m,ost FF members are ordinary decent citizens.
The question for the present is why are these FF members allowing a few extremists to treat the Constitution, written by FF's greatest hero, as just something to be used to grab a few votes?
Where are the "decent" voices in FF protesting at the foisting of a racially motivated, utterly needless referendum?
Is nothing of enough sacred value anymore than it cannot be sacrificed on the altar of FF's political expediency?
Just how low are they prepared to sink to get a vote?
I'm not concerned with the other creeps you mentioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by liamon
I'm posting to see if there is anyone else out there who is just as sickened, disgusted and weary of how nasty, greedy and awful the current goverrnment is, and how they have changed a society into an economy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by liamon
are you out of your vulcan mind ?? :eek:
Thats my whole point, Conor. There is far more to a country than an economy. But the PD's and McCreevy have dumped all pretence at society here and hammered us with the message that all that matters is an economy. All FF politics is based on the economy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Conor74
Labour and the Greens (and SF?) are against the substantive issue. So are many in FG, even a few lone dissenters in FF. If you were reading the Times during the week, you would have read very persuasive and convincing arguments why a referendum is wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Conor74
If EVERYONE would have preferred more time, why the rush?Quote:
Originally Posted by Conor74
You suspect, though I doubt you'll admit it that, like most other people that the reason the date was picked was to use a highly contentious and divisive issue to stir up the latent racism in a lot of Irish people.
"A LEGAL IMPERATIVE". Your words. Why not deal with it with legislation so?Quote:
Originally Posted by Conor74
Why must we change one of the most fundamental articles of our Constitution?
Issues like children born to diplomats have been dealt with by legislation.
Insist that airlines refuse passage to heavily pregnant women.
I do not agree with the politics of Martin or Dempsey, or the way they can be loose with the truth when it suits them. However, I do believe that those two Ministers at least still believe in some sort of society, are probably decent men who would try to do the right thing and who seem to have some cognisance of the old FF ideal of a party for everyone.
Yet they are called out to defend the indefensible and the increasingly strident hectoring of McDowell as well as his constantly changing basis as to why this is so urgent, and they do so without demur.
Why will none of them take a step back and realise this is much more important than any party politics?
There are many ways of solving this "problem".
Why go down the road of what should be the absolute last resort for legislators?
When is someone in FF going to stand up to McDowell and reign in his extremism?
Things have come to a pretty pass when I'm having to look to FF for relief... :(
With pleasure! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by liamon
No matter who the government is, it is always going to be 'nasty, greedy and awful'. Our system of government doesn't provide the conditions for a decent, honest government. The Dáil is controlled by corrupt individuals, motivated by personal gain, who, on the whole, don't particularly care about the pulblic, so long as they retain their power and privledge.Quote:
Originally Posted by patsh
We will never have a good government under capitalism. Get used to it! Things aren't going to change. We can whinge all we want, we can vote FG instead of FF, but things will not change under the present system.
An alternative, I hear you ask. Those in government will always be corrupt and look after your own interests. So get rid of the current system of government and replace it with something better. A system which gives everyone a direct say in how the country is run. Communism. Abolish the Dáil and the trappings of the present state. The creation of workers soviets in every workplace to decide what to produce, how much to produce, and the logistics of its distribution, storage, etc, would provide a viable alternative. No-one could use power for their own gains as there would be no pratical way of doing this (That is, no 'state' (in the current sense of the word) with which to exercise an individual's power). With the population of the country working together, instead of competing amongest ourselves as we currently do, productivity would rise. Living standards would then rise, creating a more prosperous, equitable society.
This change will not come from above, we can't rely on the good will of our present rulers. Change will only come from the grassroots up. Unfortunately however, there doesn't seem to much stomach for any such change among the masses in today's society.
So, basically, for the time being, we're stuck with what we've got. Ye can choose one corrupt party over another, but things won't change. If you accept capitalism, then shut up and accept crap government. The two go hand in hand.
Ahh, Brendy, the vim and vigour of youth. Crap government is crap government, mucker, irrespective of political leaning. Uncle Joe, from whom you quote, was famous for five-year plans that led to millions of people starving. Never mind the twenty-or-so million that he and his administration murdered. And yet the Party apparatchiks and nomenklatura still enjoyed their Crimean dachas. Some communism, huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by brendy_éire
I know what you're saying, but never, ever underestimate the ability of people to crap all over each other in the pursuit of greed and personal gain. Whatever political system you subscribe to. Humanity is just not capable of ascending the heights that such advanced systems demand. Sorry to pee on your bonfire and all that, but plus ca change, plus c’est la même chose...
:) PP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plastic Paddy
as old sage would say:tout est bien,de fine bien.cest lavie :D
Its haldly FFs fault that there is no crediable opposition in this country.
FG? Most people just see them as Tesco Brand-FF anyway. A bad attempt at a copy.
SF? I dont think the Irish people would be over the moon with a SF Minister in charge of the Gardaí. Imagne the new training in Templemore. "Now lads, as we always say the best way to stop crime is to prevent it....with a baseball bat to the knee cap."
Labour seem the only ones who would be up to it but they still cant decide if they are socalist anymore. Then in a move that reminds me of Bohs casuals bringing their English hoolies over to fight the Rovers Casuals, they bring Robin Cooke over to their conference.
Then the whole democracy thing of the Irish people voting for FF Governments all the time.....but sure why let that ruin a good thread.
We dont need to cover the left Conor, sure we're already left of centre. Dont you listen to (future) Taoiseach Martin?Quote:
Originally Posted by Conor74
:D
and as for guns.....not us who has em ;)