15,000+ Friendlies - Third Party

Ref: FAI issue statement on Limerick v Barcelona clash

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FAI's position on the fixture is that third party agreements mean it cannot sanction games in stadia with capacities over 15,000

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Just a thread to find out the particulars of this agreement, aside from the Limerick v Barca debacle. Who is this third party and why are they involved? Why cant the FAI organise these games or leave the clubs do it. If the FAI actually cant organise these games it would be fairly alarming to say the least, given the business that they are in.

How long is this thrid party due to operate? How many friendlies have the organised in the past?

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Originally Posted by A face

Ref: FAI issue statement on Limerick v Barcelona clash

Just a thread to find out the particulars of this agreement, aside from the Limerick v Barca debacle. Who is this third party and why are they involved? Why cant the FAI organise these games or leave the clubs do it. If the FAI actually cant organise these games it would be fairly alarming to say the least, given the business that they are in.

How long is this thrid party due to operate? How many friendlies have the organised in the past?

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I honestly think you're missing the point.

Its hardly news for sporting bodies to hire an agency to do their negotiating. It happens everywhere.

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

I honestly think you're missing the point.

Its hardly news for sporting bodies to hire an agency to do their negotiating. It happens everywhere.

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And is it usual for them to keep the details secret from clubs whose interest they are supposed to be safeguarding?

If an Irish club draw a big name in Europe (Liverpool for example) and wish to play it in Landsdowne, does this now mean it would have to be up to this third party to sanction it and not the FAI or are only friendly matches affected?

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

I honestly think you're missing the point.

Its hardly news for sporting bodies to hire an agency to do their negotiating. It happens everywhere.

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For the whole league, without agreement (or even notifying) the member clubs?

Unlikely as it is, what happens if a club makes the group stages of european competition and wants to use the RDS for example. Will they be forced to restrict capacity?

It's also a disincentive for them to grow the league (which should be their priority, not paying off a stadium) - they're putting a cap on how big clubs can grow. Would a club that became super successful, would the FAI limit them to 15k capacity?

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Its hardly news for sporting bodies to hire an agency to do their negotiating. It happens everywhere.

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I don't have a problem with the FAI hiring a body to negotiate international friendlies, but they've signed a deal that precludes any Irish teams from signing a similar deal (without telling them)

From reading the statement released last night by the FAI it seems to me that the reason they cancelled the Limerick - Barca friendly was because it would not benift the league as a whole!

Meaning that Limerick would be gaining an unfair advantage over the rest of the country because of this fundraiser.

Basically, clubs can't fundraiser on there own without the permission of the FAI. What's the point in supporters clubs or fundraising within clubs as this should also be not allowed under this reasoning. If the FAI don't want clubs gaining unfair financial advantage then shouldn't league position monies and cup winning monies be stopped as this is unfair to bray, drogs, shels, waterford mervue salthill limerick etc etc as they aren't going to win the cups.

It seems the only time you can do all this is when your club is on its knees and saying its prayers when the mighty FAI come out of the fog and GET YOU a glamour tie v Celtic.

Shambolic excuse from a Shambolic Organisation.

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Originally Posted by Rasher

And is it usual for them to keep the details secret from clubs whose interest they are supposed to be safeguarding?

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Originally Posted by Macy

For the whole league, without agreement (or even notifying) the member clubs?

Unlikely as it is, what happens if a club makes the group stages of european competition and wants to use the RDS for example. Will they be forced to restrict capacity?

It's also a disincentive for them to grow the league (which should be their priority, not paying off a stadium) - they're putting a cap on how big clubs can grow. Would a club that became super successful, would the FAI limit them to 15k capacity?

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Originally Posted by Dodge

I don't have a problem with the FAI hiring a body to negotiate international friendlies, but they've signed a deal that precludes any Irish teams from signing a similar deal (without telling them)

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All valid points, but the OP focused on the fact the FAI have outsourced their negotiations, which I don't believe is either here nor there.

The valid points, IMO, are being discussed in the other thread. Namely the FAI, by the back door, using the Participation Agreement to turn domestic football into a franchise system.

I think a participation agreement is defintiely a good thing, but full disclosure to the clubs should be a given

I think its astonishing the FAI can admit (in todays Irish times) that their friendly v Man U is outside the scope fo the agreement but its allowed..

Exactly.

We have found out that

a) The FAI has an agency organising friendlies
b) Clubs signed up to this when they signed the participation agreement
c) They were never told
d) The LOI never informed Limerick of this when refusing the fixtures

Good thing they have an ex Ryanair head of Communications, ye need a quare brass neck to spin this.

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Originally Posted by MariborKev

d) The LOI never informed Limerick of this when refusing the fixtures

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e) The FAI never informed Limerick of this when Limerick submitted a budget showing E100k from a mid-season friendly.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

e) The FAI never informed Limerick of this when Limerick submitted a budget showing E100k from a mid-season friendly.

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f) The Man U match for some reason although being a friendly above the capacity of 15,000 and the possiblity of clashing with fixtures, is exempt from the "third party agreement"

it would be interesting to see what other jurisdictions have similar arrangements with such agencies and how many of those have agreed to terms which impose similarly limiting restrictions on their league clubs? My guess would be none.

All the FAI see is the money for themselves - screw this talk of redirecting funds into the game, its waffle. They are broke and would sign their grannies lives away for some cash. Is it any surprise that the LOI clubs are the ones that suffer? Not for me. We're the easy victim because no-one really cares. What a scummy f*cking coward.

Kentaro, in response to an e-mail I sent them, have stated that they are not the "third party" referred to by the FAI. Delaney will have to come up with some Bertiesque explanation now...group of Manchester Businessmen anyone?

One small point is that the FAI making money is not a bad thing- at the end of the day they run Irish football and it takes a hell of a lot of money to do that. And although the figures may be disputed, they do spend a fair bit on the LOI. If the FAI get into major financial bother Irish football, and indeed our own clubs will suffer because of this. Certainly the people I've met from the FAI working on league matters have struck me as people doing their level best for the LOI often in difficult circumstances and we'd be worse off without them.

The handling of this has been poor though, and doesn't really seem to make any real sense to me. People working for Irish football, be it within the FAI, the clubs or the LOI generally must be wondering how what should have been a very good week for the FAI could have turned into such a PR nightmare and feeling pretty damn demoralized.

My own suspicion is that nobody thought the 15,000 clause would be an issue since no LOI club comes close to that capacity anyway, and even outside of football there are very few venues that do.

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

All valid points, but the OP focused on the fact the FAI have outsourced their negotiations, which I don't believe is either here nor there.

The valid points, IMO, are being discussed in the other thread. Namely the FAI, by the back door, using the Participation Agreement to turn domestic football into a franchise system.

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ORA, i know i asked about the outsourcing but the post was about the whole issue in general. I have no problem with it either if its all above board, if it takes the head ache out of it then so be it. I would ask, as i have done is why wouldn't the organise the games themselves, its the business they are in afterall ..... that said, if there are benefits to outsourcing then then theres no debate.

But why all the cloak and dagger??

The thread is to debate all aspects of an issue that we are only familiar with for the last two days.

www.kentarogroup.com

How long has this been outsourced already?
How long was the contract / agreement sign up for?

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Originally Posted by Dalymountrower

Kentaro, in response to an e-mail I sent them, have stated that they are not the "third party" referred to by the FAI. Delaney will have to come up with some Bertiesque explanation now...group of Manchester Businessmen anyone?

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So does that mean the FAI have contracts with two seperate companies to set up friendlies not one? Lie, after Lie, after Lie it seems.

To follow on from what Mr. A was saying, i have no doubt there is very good people that are working very hard for the FAI and it's not these people anybody wants to answer questions. Its the few people in charge that have questions to answer and i feel should let more competent people take the reins.

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Originally Posted by Jofspring

Lie, after Lie, after Lie it seems.
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That's my suspicion tbh. How can we be sure this "3rd party" actually exists ? The capacity for these games started out at 20,000, when someone asked the very pertinent question, "Can't the game simply be sanctioned with a capacity in Thomond of 19,500 ?" it suddenly comes down to "stadia with a capacity of more than 15,000. What if Limerick move the game to say, Turners Cross, with capacity of 9,000 (or whatever it holds / Could it go ahead then ? The whole thing stinks worse than a bin of rotting fish and sour milk.

Jees,

If only Derry got a big name friendly and took it to Belfast. That'd set the cat amongst the pigeons.