Player eligibility row

Now I know well the GFA allows all persons in the North to hold either passport, and I know it can be a little funny to see the Norn Iron lads get all upset, and I know that most Northern Catholics do feel more affinity to the ROI than the North.

BUT

Should we, for the sake of the game, and in the genuine spirit of fairness quit poaching their players?
I mean Shane Duffy sounds like a decent prospect, but for Gods sakes the IFA have practically raised him in the international game. For him to then turn around, give them 2 fingers and say "thanks lads, i'm off" is just plain wrong.
Gibson the same.

People here were giving out yards at the cheek of the SFA to try and recruit McGeady and McCarthy a while back, after we "raised him"
Well this is the very same......
Except when we are the thieves, its ok? But when the Scots do it....its not?

One of these days a lad from say, Dundalk, with Northern Parents might decide he wants over there after coming through our ranks. Would love to see our reaction to that! How dare he! Traitor etc etc

I realise Duffy has ROI parents. I know this. But it still doesnt change the fact that the IFA looked after him since being a kid and this is ultimately a betrayal.

What if this starts a trend. What now if all Catholic lads decided they want to play for us....
The NI team would collapse. Do we really want that?? I dont.

Players like Mal Donaghy, Gerry Armstrong, Martin O'Neill, Alan McKnight, Pat Jennings all played for the North and did so with pride. Lennon is the obvious exception, but its not like all other Catholics were treated badly... they werent!!

If the ROI didnt go actively seeking to recruit players from NI this wouldnt happen. We need to stop it. Now if a player declares for us of his own free will, then thats different. But for us to go recruiting players from different associations is just plain wrong, i dont care how good he is or isnt.

on a side note, as an evertonian, i think it will end up a lot of fuss over very little. The lad is a decent player, but he is not the next Paul McGrath or Jimmy Quinn!!

In a short answer, NO. Our pool is small enough as it is and an individual born in the six countries is rightly eligible to play for ROI. The real issue here is the defection after a number of years with NI.

Its hard to ignore the political issue here but if one thing supporting and following ROI around the world has taught me, its how many people from the north consider the ROI "their" team and have no affiliation with NI.

Yes technically the ROI represents the 26 counties but we are a relatively unique situation. Anyone born in the north is rightly imo entitled to a ROI passport and then should be entitled to represent the ROI if they so wish. Even if they do not have any direct relations born in ROI (e.g. the Gibson case).

I think the real issue here is the chopping and changing. The new rules are ridiculous imo and should at least revert to what was in place before. For example, I think a game at U21 level should tie a player to that country. This would lessen the likes of the Duffy incident to an extent.

If James McCarthy suddenly declared for Scotland, we would be very pi**ed off about the decision even though the lad would fully be within his rights, so I can understand that NI are aggrieved over the whole incident. However, the real issue here is not the eligibility and is the defection after a number of years spent coming through the ranks. I think it is NB to point out that difference.

i think if there good enough and want to play for us i have no problem with that. the lads that make the decisiove are very brave and i think we should respect their wishes but yeah i think a player should have to choose before he gets an u21 cap

Elroy, thanks for that. Decent reply.
While I agree that players from NI should have the right to declare for us, I also feel in this case, we shouldnt have "gone looking for him"
Thats my main problem with this. Its not that he declared for us, which after so long with NI i do think was bad form, but more so I feel ROI going actively tapping him up, and thats what it is, nothing else, thats wrong. Shane Duffy played all his international football with NI, he then comes of age, plays for a big club and next thing we go "Oi, Shane, come to us. Dont mind those prods" .... if we had left him alone, I have no doubt he would be a happy NI international today. As after all those years in their academy's etc, he should be.

Maybe Im missing something in the whole Duffy story and correct me if i am, but i am not aware of the FAI actively chasing Duffy down to declare for us? Im not that naive to think it hasnt happened to some degree behind the scenes but has it actually been reported??

In fairness to the FAI, its not like they tend to overlook available talent, they are usually good at identifying the young lads who are eligible and bringing them into the set up at a young age, McCarthy and McGeady are prime examples.

Liam Brady made the first contact according to the lads father in an interview on Cool Fm in Belfast

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Originally Posted by an_ceannaire

Liam Brady made the first contact according to the lads father in an interview on Cool Fm in Belfast

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He did have trials with us at a very early age but the IFA were willing to fast-track his international progress and offer him more opportunities than we were offering at the time. Despite his progress within NI's ranks, it appears that those around Shane were letting the FAI know that Shane was still keen on us (so to speak) but the FAI needed to indicate that the possibility for Shane to play with us still existed - which Brady seems to now have done.

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Originally Posted by elroy

In a short answer, NO. Our pool is small enough as it is and an individual born in the six countries is rightly eligible to play for ROI. The real issue here is the defection after a number of years with NI.

Its hard to ignore the political issue here but if one thing supporting and following ROI around the world has taught me, its how many people from the north consider the ROI "their" team and have no affiliation with NI.

Yes technically the ROI represents the 26 counties but we are a relatively unique situation. Anyone born in the north is rightly imo entitled to a ROI passport and then should be entitled to represent the ROI if they so wish. Even if they do not have any direct relations born in ROI (e.g. the Gibson case).

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Totally agree with you elroy. You have it in a nutshell.

No.

You are falling into the "poaching" trap. He wasn't poached, he wasn't kidnapped. Its pretty obvious that family connections were playing a part long before Liam Brady arrived on the scene.

Shane Duffy has more ties with the Republic than Cascarino & many, many others had - and also more than Maik Taylor has with NI.
This cannot be forgotten. Its a straw man argument.

Perhaps this will be the wake up call that the northern authorities need. You should read the vitriol on the OWC website, basically childish insults just f**k him and f**k the FAI (and everyone else). There is little self reflection as to why this is occuring on an increasingly regular basis. Some acknowledge the points, but try to play them down. The evidence speaks for itself. Maybe some good will come of it from a NI point of view.

Anyway its fairly settled now, and hopefully the young man will prove himself over time, all he has been given is a opportunity remember!

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Originally Posted by dantheman

No.

You are falling into the "poaching" trap. He wasn't poached, he wasn't kidnapped. Its pretty obvious that family connections were playing a part long before Liam Brady arrived on the scene.

Shane Duffy has more ties with the Republic than Cascarino & many, many others had - and also more than Maik Taylor has with NI.
This cannot be forgotten. Its a straw man argument.

Perhaps this will be the wake up call that the northern authorities need. You should read the vitriol on the OWC website, basically childish insults just f**k him and f**k the FAI (and everyone else). There is little self reflection as to why this is occuring on an increasingly regular basis. Some acknowledge the points, but try to play them down. The evidence speaks for itself. Maybe some good will come of it from a NI point of view.

Anyway its fairly settled now, and hopefully the young man will prove himself over time, all he has been given is a opportunity remember!

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Can you blame people for being annoyed at how he's done this? Put yourself in our shoes.

Difficult issue, but my concern is not so much with the poaching or the principle, but the potential implications for football in Ireland if more "nationalist" players in the North opt for RoI. On one level I am happy to see Duffy playing for my "preferred" Irish team (That OK IFK?) but it would be unhealthy to say the least if our international teams had even more pronounced sectarian identities. I know its a chestnut and total red rag to the likes of EG and GR, but an all Ireland football team would surely be preferable to two international teams predicated on political / religous loyalties rather than their territorial jurisdictions.

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Originally Posted by awec

Can you blame people for being annoyed at how he's done this? Put yourself in our shoes.

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Yes. I can. Based purely on the fact that I wouldn't care if it was the other way round. Didn't care when Shane Lowry did it. Didn't care when McCarthy was linked with Scotland a few weeks ago. Didn't care when Kane did it. When Jim O'Brien said he's thinking of throwing his lot in with Scotland last week. Like when McCourt was at Rochdale and United were supposedly after him. There was an alleged tug of war between us over allegience that NI won (I recall reading in the Herald at the time). I don't care about Steven Ireland not even playing (the gick he spouts out that insults me intelligence annoys me mind you).

I'm happy if they commit, but if they don't I honestly don't see the big investment in them that warrants a sense of betrayal.

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Originally Posted by awec

Can you blame people for being annoyed at how he's done this? Put yourself in our shoes.

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I can, because NI has a very small pool to pick from. You should be maximising it, not putting people off through your own belligerance. There are questions closer to home to be answered, and by all accounts the IFA/OWC fans simply aren't doing anything about. The ball lies in your own court.

But let's not overplay the compensation issue. He has never played for the NI senior team. He turned up for the Italy match and by all accounts wasn't treated very well. He may have played underage but you don't own him.


Furthermore, as regards the "Beggars", why would the people insulted so regularly by your support owe you anything? That's simply not realistic. Think about it....

So by your logic, it's grand that you stole one of our players because some of our fans refer to you as beggars?

Excellent logic that.

There wasn't a murmour here when Kane and O'Connor returned, at least I don't remember any. I think most would have wished them well.
We are much more understanding about the fragilities of youth. I don't give much value to bitterness and begrudgery sentiments.
Duffy like most nationalist yewts in the North grew up supporting the Republic.

I am mystified as to how on earth the IFA hope to grab the attention of Nationalist yewts with attempting the stunt of a memory wipe and cough cough, I hope you still don't mind if we just belt out GSTQ and glory be to the Empire, it's our solemn right to do that you know.

But more than all that, I would blame this man for the IFA's misfortunes

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sol/shared/spl...cket/img/8.jpg

I think it's only fair we do a swap. How about Northern Ireland receiving McShane? I promise I won't spit my dummy out.

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Originally Posted by awec

So by your logic, it's grand that you stole one of our players because some of our fans refer to you as beggars?

Excellent logic that.

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No I didn't say that.
If you want any favours, you should stop the childish name calling against those with whom you wish to deal

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Originally Posted by geysir

I am mystified as to how on earth the IFA hope to grab the attention of Nationalist yewts with attempting the stunt of a memory wipe and cough cough, I hope you still don't mind if we just belt out GSTQ and glory be to the Empire, it's our solemn right to do that you know.

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I don't know either, but they are aware of the issues and do not address them. It's beyond my comprehension this mentality. Sad to see, but they are their own worst enemies

Simple fact is that the lad is more than eligible to play for us so it was up to him who to choose. Thanks to the GFA we can now, rightly so IMO, pick lads born in the six counties. I do feel a bit of sympathy for the North having invested their time & money in to his development but if you go about tying them down any earlier I reckon there's a real chance that it would result in a race to the bottom, capping all eligible players, just to get in there first. That's not going to solve anything.

Welcome aboard Shane, let's hope you're all you're cracked up to be.

The way some NI fans are talking it's like the FAI kidnapped him and forced him to choose us.