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This was dicussed on here before.
Looks like Bertie, McDowell and the Sinn-ers are taking the gloves off.
Story on RTÉ website
Poor old Adams was flabergasted that Bertie thought he was in the IRA? McGuinness doing much the same, it's a government conspiricy, against working class people apparently.
Things are about to get very interesting in Irish politics.
Next thing Bertie will be saying SF....sorry the IRA are involved in cross border smuggling, drug distribution etc...
:eek:
Sure those Unionists are terrible for not sharing government with Gerry 'n Co but we in the Republic have different reasons for not wanting them in government.
How times are changing eh... Only a few years ago FF would have been the first people to defend SF if anyone accused them of being the same as the IRA.
:rolleyes:
Think Bertie, Adams and McGuinness should all read Ed Maloney's "Secret History of the IRA", just to clarify their positions.....Quote:
Originally posted by SÓC
This was dicussed on here before.
Looks like Bertie, McDowell and the Sinn-ers are taking the gloves off.
Story on RTÉ website
Poor old Adams was flabergasted that Bertie thought he was in the IRA? McGuinness doing much the same, it's a government conspiricy, against working class people apparently.
Things are about to get very interesting in Irish politics.
Not sure I'd agree with the interesting part, but the Sinner's must be in the running for the Comical Ali Award for 2004...
Bertie & Co are only going for this for the media attention, looking at the forthcoming European and local elections, attempting to stop SF's growth.
As for Bertie not being in government with SF, that has nothing to do with the IRA. FF won't ever go into government with SF because their policies are too different. FF are a right wing, capitalist, conversative party, whereas SF are a centre-left party. They're not compatible for government. If SF was to be in government in the south, it would be with the Greens, the Socialists and Labour.
Once again, the Minister for 'Justice', and I use that term lightly, has gone about accusing people of committing crimes for which he has no evidence. If SF members are involved in smuggling, etc, prosecute them! Innocent until proven guilty? Obviously not in this country.
FF as a party are anti-working class. They promote private enterprise and put big business ahead of the workers. And as for the PDs, they sicken me to be honest. Ultra-capitalist, right wing scum, who'd like to see pensioners thrown out onto the street for not being able to afford being put in care.
McDowell really shows his ignorance by calling SF 'Nazis', when FF endorse the majority of the policies of the German Nazi Party.
It's a sad state of affairs when an Irish minister stoops to the use of name-calling. It says a lot for this government's attitude towards the opposition.
Woah there Brendy_Éire.
FF are endorsing the majority of the Nazi's policies? Name one? Nows who's name calling?
Jerry Adams wrote in An Phoblacht under the pen-name Brownie admitting that he was in the IRA. Thirty years later he's flabergasted that the Taoiseach thought he was in the IRA?
Bertie and BigMac mightnt be everyones cup of tea but they are not stupid. IMO they are sitting on something letting Sinn-ers get themselves into a mess like Adams has done.
Add this to the IRA involvement in an attempted kidnapping Belfast, IMO spells trouble for Sinn-ers south of the Border at least.
Woah there yourself, SOC. the word missing from that quote is alleged. Remember the Castlereagh break in? Trimble and co used that as an excuse to bring down the Assembly. Again the only evidence was the word of Hugh Ord.Quote:
Originally posted by SÓC
[B
Add this to the IRA involvement in an attempted kidnapping Belfast, [/B]
No charges were brought mainly because even the dogs on the street knew it was an inside job and had nothing to do with the IRA. But that didn't matter to the Unionists and their apologists down here.
The latest black propaganda from McDowell and Ahern is scaremongering ahead of the elections. Nothing else. The fact that it plays into the hands of the Unionists and may well destroy what's left of the Peace Process is just a side effect that doesn't bother FF and the PDs.
Having said all that Adams' denial of IRA membership was laughable. As Ed Moroney said in the Tribune yesterday, without Adams and McGuinness' involvement in the IRA there would be no Peace Process.
KOH
gerry adams was not in the ira in the same sense that clinton never had sex with monica lewinsky:rolleyes:
I don't give a sh*t for Sinn Fein and their ilk, but the fact that McDowell is allowed to get away with this is particularly worrying.
This is the guy who claims to know everything there is to know about the law and the legal system. He is an SC, a former Attorney General and the Minister for Justice.
YET he makes all sorts of allegations, claiming them as fact, but so far has not produced one single shred of evidence. If he has this evidence, it must be quite easy to bring charges.
If this guy, with all his self-proclaimed belief and knowledge of the law, can carry on like this, simply to boost the chances of a minor party to get votes, this country is even more f*cked than anybody thought.
So what are you saying patsh? That Adams and McGuinness aren't/weren't in the IRA? That the IRA isn't a active, illegal organisation in possession of guns/ammo/explosives?
That McDowell should accuse anyone else of being Nazi like is laughable, but that isn't the funniest thing about this whole episode...
"I did not have sexual relations with that paramilitary organisation."Quote:
Originally posted by eoinh
gerry adams was not in the ira in the same sense that clinton never had sex with monica lewinsky
I wonder does Gerry think being associated with the IRA is a slur on his name?
Sure he could always bring Mickey Mac to court?
You've got me all wrong. I'm not calling anyone names. Ye see, you're taking me comparing FF policies with that of the Nazi Party as an insult. Not the case at all. FF are a very capitalist party, as are the Nazis. FF encourage private enterprise and give substancial tax breaks to businesses, as did the Nazis. Both FF and the Nazis called their opponents, particularly those on the left, nasty things and attempted to publicly discredit them by accusing them of crimes they didn't commit (FF accuse SF members of smuggling, kidnapping, etc. The Nazis accused the German Communist Party of setting fire to the Reichstag). FF share many policies with the Nazis, but they do differ on issues of race, nationalism, etc. There's a stigma attached to the Nazis by many that they were these terrible, evil people, but the majority of people making these assumptions don't even know what the Nazis policies were, apart from the 2nd World War and the anti-Semetism. When I say that FF share policies with the Nazis, I'm not engaging in name-calling, I'm just stating the facts.Quote:
Originally posted by SÓC
FF are endorsing the majority of the Nazi's policies? Name one? Nows who's name calling?
I would have assumed that Adams was a member of the IRA, it seems slightly inconceivable that he wouldn't have been, but why would he say that he wasn't? What's he got to benefit from by lying? And if he was in the 'RA, so what? Being in the 'RA isn't a big thing. Do people honestly care? The PSNI certainly don't.Quote:
Originally posted by SÓC
Jerry Adams wrote in An Phoblacht under the pen-name Brownie admitting that he was in the IRA. Thirty years later he's flabergasted that the Taoiseach thought he was in the IRA?
As already mentioned, this is all alledged. The IRA leadership said they did not order any operation on Bobby Tohill. Enough said.Quote:
Originally posted by SÓC
Add this to the IRA involvement in an attempted kidnapping Belfast, IMO spells trouble for Sinn-ers south of the Border at least.
Aye.Quote:
Originally posted by Conor74
Is this a serious post?!
Quote:
Originally posted by Conor74
The Nazis were famous for their use of violence, brutality and intimidation to pursue political goals.
Did I not say there were differences in policy?
History is full of 'what ifs'. Firstly, the last IRA campaign was prompted by the RUC and loyalist groups attacking Catholics, who turned to the IRA for protection. Secondly, Ireland unfree shall never be at peace. If the Brits had left, the bloodshed would certainly have been avoided.Quote:
Originally posted by Conor74
If only the IRA had confined their approach to 'calling their opponents nasty things' then perhaps we may have avoided a lot of the bloodshed.
FYI, I agree with a lot of the policies of SF, but I'm not 'Sinn Féin to the hilt'. I'm not speaking on behalf of SF, so don't feel that I'm attempting to promote them here, and I don't view them as 'knights in shining armour' either.Quote:
Originally posted by Conor74
you may well agree with Sinn Fein, they are a perfectly legitimate party in a democracy and you are entitled to do so, but surely you can see that comparing the Government to Nazis doesn't make anyone think that Sinn Fein are some knights in shining armour.
Are you trying to say that FF share no policies with that of the German Nazi Party? I'm not using the term 'Nazi' in a derogatory fashion, I'm using it in comparing policies. An intelligent person should be able to separate the economic policies of the Nazis from their racial and nationalist policies. FF share a great deal of their economic policies with the Nazis, as do the PDs.
In future coalitions with FF? I can't see that happening without policies changes in either party. They're too opposed with regard to economics.Quote:
Originally posted by Conor74
On a practical level, SF may well provide a viable alternative to the PDs in future coalitions, it's surely more likely than FG being able to make up the numbers with any party or parties.
True, All it is is propaganda from McDowell and Ahern who are afraid of SF growthQuote:
Originally posted by brendy_eire
Bertie & Co are only going for this for the media attention, looking at the forthcoming European and local elections, attempting to stop SF's growth.
BTW I think the PD's are closer to the Nazi's with their right wing views and policies
I never mentioned that anything was funny, and I never mentioned the IRA.Quote:
Originally posted by Macy
So what are you saying patsh? That Adams and McGuinness aren't/weren't in the IRA? That the IRA isn't a active, illegal organisation in possession of guns/ammo/explosives?
That McDowell should accuse anyone else of being Nazi like is laughable, but that isn't the funniest thing about this whole episode...
If you want to have a debate with someone, at least read their post properly.
I'm saying that the self-proclaimed top legal expert in this country, a holder of Ministerial office, is spraying the most serious allegations left, right and centre without offering a shred of proof. or a hint of a prosecution.
The point seems to be entirely for possible electoral advantage.
If anyone thinks this is acceptable in a "democratic, liberal republic", then the word nazi is apt, but not in the way McDowell intended.
Wait a minute brendy_eire. Lets follow your logic.
Nuns are a lot like Nazis.
They have arms, legs, eyes, ears. They are both partial to wearing black. They follow the directions of one man.
:rolleyes:
As a member of FF I have no love for the PDs at all. They, to me at least, seem to have too much influence. But I do not think of McDowell as stupid. I really think he must be sitting on something if he's bring this up so much. The PDs and SF are very different. Their "target markets" for votes are miles apart. The main people who should fear SF are those on the left. McDowell wouldnt have that much to gain vote wise. I honestly think that he has something.
Yea sorry, alleged involvment. But then again the fact that the PIRA exists is a crime in itself.
But to be honest as with FF/FG and corruption; throw enough mud at SF and some will stick.
Well actually the Nazi's economic poliies would have more in common with the left than the extreme right wing laissez faire policies of the PD's. The Nazi party were against transnational corporate powers and extreme nationalist while the PD's support globalisation and Americanization and are anti-Nationalist.Quote:
Originally posted by TheRealRovers
True, All it is is propaganda from McDowell and Ahern who are afraid of SF growth
BTW I think the PD's are closer to the Nazi's with their right wing views and policies
Hitler was noted by Time magazine in 1938 for having anti-capitalistic policies. The Nazis would probably see the PD's as part of "the World Jewish Capitalist Conspiracy". It would more accurate to compare the PD's to extreme right of the Tory Party or the American Republican Party.
FF and FG corruption? Nice try, but we all know which party had the most corrupt councillor's/TD's/Ministers/Taoiseach...Quote:
Originally posted by SÓC
But to be honest as with FF/FG and corruption; throw enough mud at SF and some will stick.
Agree that the parties on the left have the most to gain, that's why you'll see Labour and the Greens keep their heads down. However, FF and the PD's must have something to gain, else they wouldn't be saying/supporting the view? For the PD's, it's obviously part of McDowell's plans to reverse take over FG...
Shoudnt the part comparing FF with the Nazi party be moved to another thread. One entitled comedy?
My, it only takes a few years for most terrorism to stop and peoples memories fade. Or maybe its something to do with the age of the posters?
I would never vote FF in a million years but to label it as like the Nazi party is utter bumkin.
DO SOME RESEARCH OR READ A BOOK. THE NAZIS WERE THE MOST EVIL IDEA EVER TO BE FOSTERED ON THE WORLD. SO MANY PEOPLE SUFFERED THAT ITS ALMOST UNIMAGINABLE.
Ah Im not denying that more FF people have been caught, so far at least.Quote:
Originally posted by Macy
FF and FG corruption? Nice try, but we all know which party had the most corrupt councillor's/TD's/Ministers/Taoiseach...
Agree that the parties on the left have the most to gain, that's why you'll see Labour and the Greens keep their heads down. However, FF and the PD's must have something to gain, else they wouldn't be saying/supporting the view? For the PD's, it's obviously part of McDowell's plans to reverse take over FG...
Of course FF/PDs have something to gain but not that much. It would surprise me if they didnt have something solid that they were keeping in reserve or bluffing. Let SF stew. Adams has already made himself look like a fool. Either way its a very risky road to go down.