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Was just thinking about this and in terms of what is at stake and the limitations of our squad:would victory against arguably one of the best nations of this generation be our greatest ever achievement.
Hard to think of many if any that would top it.
In recent memory
1. beating holland 2001 - crunch game, everything at stake
2. beating england 1988 - massive victory in a major championships
3. reaching and being competitve in the quarter finals of the world cup 1990 - nuff said (even though the games themselves weren't great)
All of these to me would be a greater achievement
I reckon it would be one of our finest, but you know the typical Irish pessimist would say the French played rubbish, didnt want it, bad manager and that we're still brutal..Quote:
Originally Posted by shep
Given the Staunton debacle, lack of: the Reids, Finnan and S. Ireland, defensive frailties, makeshift left back, lack of ability to control midfield or dominate possession etc. I would put qualifying for South Africa above all that has gone before.Quote:
Originally Posted by shep
Having said this, I will state the obvious in that “that was then and this is now”!!!
The fact that we'd have to prevail over the course of 180 mins at least - as opposed to 90 would mark it down as a great achievement.
You can't afford to have a great 90 minutes in one leg and be poor in the second. We'll have to play well consistently over the 2 legs.
I personally wouldn't rank one famous victory as better or more famous than another.
England (88), Italy (94) and Holland (01) were all great victories that will last forever in the memory.
This would be the best, by a distance, in my opinion.
I was just going to make this point. Considering the pool of players available to us, it would be a monumental achievement to beat France over 2 legs. If this was a one off game on neutral territory, I'd give us a reasonable chance. Over 2 games though, it's going to be extremely difficult. If we do this, I can see myself blubbering.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfie
Wolfie took the words right out of my mouth in a 90 min/120 min game its like a cup game, anything can happen on the day.
A two leg, home and away game, where goal difference counts, the better team 90% of the time will come out on top. IF we get through, we are the better team. Simple as that, they may have better individual players but as a team we are a better functioning unit.
So given the fact that all matches mentioned before were over 90 mins, I would put this as our greatest acheievement given how good france are and their showing at the last world cup.
Would it be the most memorable or the the greatest in terms of what it meant to the country or people, i'm not so sure. I dont think it would. For me, because I will have been at both home and away games in the play-off it probably will be.
It would definitely be the most dramatic turnaround in such a short space of time. I think it would probably eclipse the quarters of Italia '90 too with regards to the world taking notice, France being that much of a super power in every sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
It would be our greatest single victory by a distance (even though it's spread over 2 legs) preventing a French team who until recently were the greatest of this generation of all the European football teams (a world cup win, a euro win and a world cup final) from reaching the World Cup considering also the helping hand they have been lent by Mr Blatter and Mr Platini with possibly more to come during the games.
If any of the players read this - do it for Eirebhoy lads.
YI, reading what you have said, not that i haven't though it previouslly, but how have they left domenech in charge for so long. Even I would probably have them further than he does given the players at his disposal. If that were England or Italy he would have been gone years ago.
Still though like in the world cup they still managed to get to teh world cup. Its like any sport, the big team always does enough when it needs to. They did it in Landsdowne when they really needed to as well.
Exactly Paul which is why I worry we don't quite have enough to beat them when it really matters though I think we'll give them a game and maybe a scare or two.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
There were similar question marks about them before the last World Cup yet they were imo the best team in the tournament, knocking out the fancied Spanish, Brazilians and Portugeuse before losing to a solid but unspectacular Italian team on penalties in a game that they had the best of.
Saying that they have lost some of their greatest players since then.
Best ever. Loads of small nations beat bigger ones over 90 minutes, but in a two legged playoff, with matches right on the back of each other, this would be bigger.
Probably the biggest. As we have to beat them over two legs. They have the second leg back at their place. World Cup finalists. Have a host of world class attacking options. But then again so did Holland when we took 4 points off them. Given, Keane, (Hopefully Duff), Dunne, O'Shea, and Kilbane have been through these type of games before. But for me it would be huge for us to beat France over two games.
This would be our biggest acheivment due to the fact its a two leged affair with the 2nd leg away, having said that i reckon we will do it on penalties after 2 dull draws and if we do i wont care about having spent a fortune going to all the qualifiers home n away once we get to the finals.
I'm normally extremely pessimistic when it comes to Irish matches, as a lot of my previous posts will show. I have to stress that: when the opposition get the ball, I start cursing uncontrollably and muttering to myself that they're going to score - every corner, every free, every foray into our half has goal written all over it. So I'm not one to be blithely optimistic in the face of probability.Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
But, in spite of all that, I really do think this is possible for us. I highlighted the line above because it's one I've been hearing quite frequently when people talk about the playoffs. What we must remember, first off, is that we do not have to beat France. We can reach the World Cup with two draws on away goals. Keeping this in mind makes it an altogether more attainable goal, in my view. Perhaps it is too much to hope for another memorable win á la Holland 2001 or Italy 1994 - they only seem to come around once every ten years or so. But heroic draws? That's our speciality, lads. We can do this.
Secondly, for what it's worth, I should point out that many of the wiser heads in the French media actually view us as the worst possible draw they could have got. A friend of mine downloaded a number of podcasts from French radio where respected journalists and media types were discussing at length how, despite our obvious limitations, they really fear Trapattoni. They rate him as a master tactician who will have his homework done on France and they are very nervous about an upset. I know many in Ireland may not see him in quite so imposing a light given his often frustratingly negative approach and regular reliance on the long ball, but that's not the view being taken in France. They're worried.
So, much like with the two Italy games, I find myself breaking from type and actually expecting a positive result from these playoffs. I am well aware the odds are stacked against us and, man-for-man, there is little contest about which collection of players is the stronger. But to confine our predictions to these criteria is to disregard the many intangibles that also affect the outcome of big matches such as these. I believe we will do it. Two draws. Ireland qualify. And this from the biggest footballing pessimist of them all! :)
PS: in the 16 or so years of attending games, the Croker match will be the first ever truly big Irish match I'll have ever been to. Belgium '97 was the previous biggest, but France are - by reputation - the first big side I'll have ever seen live in an important competitive match. Can't wait!
It would be the biggest i would say. As previous posters have said it is over two legs with one mighty prize.
Hate to rain on the parade but we have qualified for 4 major finals already by beating teams ranked far higher than us.
Although beating France would be very very sweet and a real kick in the teeth to messrs Blatter & Platini not to mind adidas and French tv it would not rank with results in major finals such as wins over England, Italy & Romania.
As Jimmy Hill so eloquently put it England were very lucky to draw us in Euro88 as there were 7 strong teams in the competition and a weak Eire. We also beat an Italian team in 94 that went on to lose the final on penalties.
The whole country stopped for games like Romania and Italy too. While I imagine viewing figures would be massive (assuming it is on RTE) on the 18th I don't think the country will be brought to a standstill even if we win.
Gspain i brought your last few points to attentino already, saying how it would effect the psyche etc, of course they wont be as big in that respect, but from a pure footballing viewpoint, a win over two legs with away goals counting, and the prize at the end, it has to be the biggest victory.
Do you not think the above might be a reason for your uncharacteristic optimism (sub consciously even)?Quote:
Originally Posted by TerryPhelan
I'm optimistic myself by the way....but then I always am!