Possibility of a dodgy ref for the play offs?

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15/10/2009, 5:31 PM
Emmet7

Possibility of a dodgy ref for the play offs?

Interesting point made on the RTE extra panel discussion last night.

One person who emailed in raised the possibility of a referee for the playoffs who may be influenced by higher authority to make sure the seeded team wins through.

Fifa depend a lot on advertising revenue and they want the best teams and players at the world cup.

A world cup with Ronaldo involved for example would attract a lot more followers, such as from Asia.

I know some people will dismiss it out of hand, but I'd be worried about it happening. The same seemed to happen in the Champions League semi final.

What the evidence would be of a biased ref I don't know. It could be something like a linesman/ref allowing an offside goal to stand. A soft penalty. An underserved sending off. Or on the other side Ireland having a stonewall penalty decision denied.

Fifa have shown with the qualifier seedings they are trying their utmost to get the big teams to qualify. Will they stop at just the seedings, or will they go one further?

I can see us playing Portugal and they getting a soft penalty after Ronaldo dives in the box because Richard Dunne breathed on him. I hope I am wrong.
15/10/2009, 5:54 PM
gspain

They won't try to influence the referee. That would be too obvious.

However any referee already knows who FIFA want in the finals. They won't try to be corrupt but will know their own world cup chances won't be helped by a win for the less favoured team particularly if they fail to give a penalty if there is any doubt. They won't be penalised however for giving a penalty for a Ronaldo dive.

Although Hiddink's Russia aere far superior to France or Portugal they'd probably be a better team to draw. Greece are definitely the best though as FIFA won't care who wins.
15/10/2009, 6:56 PM
Closed Account 2

I don't think there will be a dodgy ref, had Switzerland been in the playoffs it might have been different, but now I dont think it would happen. These playoffs will be highly crutinized as it is, and with all the stuff about goal-line refs and increasing accuracy then it would be too big a risk even if FIFA wanted it to happen. If it got out that FIFA were bribing refs etc the whole sport would descend into a state of farce like Cycling, look at the damage done by Juventus. The Italian league has largely cleaned itself up now but the miasma of cheating will remain for decades.
15/10/2009, 7:09 PM
Mad Moose

Who would actually notice the difference to be honest?. For as long as I've been watching football referee's have made bad decisions and you can attribute that to conspiracy if ya wish but mostly I put it down to infallibility of man, woman and referee.
15/10/2009, 7:16 PM
weldoninhio

This i a ridiculous thread, are we turning into England?? With the sensationalisation of everything. There is not a conspiracy against us, its the exact same thing that happened for the last qualifying campaign.

Yeah it sucks, but even if it wasn't seeded, there was a chance we'd get a big team anyway. If you wanna get anywhere in any sport, you have to play the big boys at some stage.
15/10/2009, 9:27 PM
Morbo

Quote:

Originally Posted by weldoninhio

If you wanna get anywhere in any sport, you have to play the big boys at some stage.

I'd rather wait until we get to the World cup before playing them though if its all the same to you.
15/10/2009, 9:43 PM
Den Perry

Quote:

Originally Posted by weldoninhio

This i a ridiculous thread, are we turning into England?? With the sensationalisation of everything. There is not a conspiracy against us, its the exact same thing that happened for the last qualifying campaign.

Yeah it sucks, but even if it wasn't seeded, there was a chance we'd get a big team anyway. If you wanna get anywhere in any sport, you have to play the big boys at some stage.

I acually agree with Emmet the seven year old here. The possibility has crossed my mind. I don't think bribery or such horrid acts would occur, but as Gspain said above, the refs may feel under pressure as it could play on their mind that FIFA want the "big boys" to go through
15/10/2009, 9:48 PM
Yard of Pace

It's an interesting subject. Half of me wants to say it's a ridiculous notion and not to be silly but the other half is remembering the many instances where referees have been seriously dodgy with human fallibilty not cutting it as an excuse.

Weren't we done in a qualifier in the early 80s by a dodgy ref who gave/ruled out a goal or something, resulting in us failing to qualify?

Anyone know what the motivation for it might have been?
15/10/2009, 10:06 PM
Eirambler

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yard of Pace

It's an interesting subject. Half of me wants to say it's a ridiculous notion and not to be silly but the other half is remembering the many instances where referees have been seriously dodgy with human fallibilty not cutting it as an excuse.

Weren't we done in a qualifier in the early 80s by a dodgy ref who gave/ruled out a goal or something, resulting in us failing to qualify?

Anyone know what the motivation for it might have been?

If I remember correctly it was the World Cup 82 qualifiers and we were up against France and Belgium for qualification. Belgium finished a point ahead of us and we missed out on the second qualifying spot to France on goal difference. I think the particularly controversial game was an away defeat in Belgium where we conceded a late goal to lose 1-0 after having a perfectly good goal disallowed ourselves. I don't think Eoin Hand ever got over it.

I believe the motivation might have been cash in hand...
15/10/2009, 10:12 PM
Emmet7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Den Perry

I acually agree with Emmet the seven year old here. The possibility has crossed my mind. I don't think bribery or such horrid acts would occur, but as Gspain said above, the refs may feel under pressure as it could play on their mind that FIFA want the "big boys" to go through

Grow up my friend.
15/10/2009, 10:17 PM
Emmet7

There will certainly be a desired result as far as Fifa are concerned.

I am not sure who the other unseeded teams are but lets say one of them is Latvia and they are playing France or in another scenario Germany.

The desired result from a Fifa point of view is qualification for the bigger richer country where TV rights and advertisement is more valuable.

A world cup made up of Latvia, Slovakia, etc etc, hardly going to be a big audience getter.

I trust the refs. I don't however trust Fifa. They have shown themselves to be a sneaky weasly bunch. Of course the best answer to their scheming is for Ireland to wipe the floor with whatever team they meet.
15/10/2009, 10:54 PM
peadar1987

Without wanting to appear racist, Asia can f*** off! There's an immensely screwed-up culture over there, when people can align themselves with glamour teams in a foreign league they have no connection with, while completely ignoring their own league. You wouldn't find that in other countries!
15/10/2009, 11:20 PM
Crosby87

Quote:

Originally Posted by peadar1987

Without wanting to appear racist, Asia can f*** off! There's an immensely screwed-up culture over there, when people can align themselves with glamour teams in a foreign league they have no connection with, while completely ignoring their own league. You wouldn't find that in other countries!

Yeah the Manchester United crowd looks the same as it did in the 80s, all those bricklayers and plumbers there.
15/10/2009, 11:25 PM
Closed Account 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eirambler

If I remember correctly it was the World Cup 82 qualifiers and we were up against France and Belgium for qualification. Belgium finished a point ahead of us and we missed out on the second qualifying spot to France on goal difference. I think the particularly controversial game was an away defeat in Belgium where we conceded a late goal to lose 1-0 after having a perfectly good goal disallowed ourselves. I don't think Eoin Hand ever got over it.

I believe the motivation might have been cash in hand...

That could well have been the case, as far as I remember Anderlecht were found guilty of rigging key European matches around that time. I think that it could well have been more widespread back then. Now I could only see it really happening with Switzerland.

Quote:

Originally Posted by peadar1987

Without wanting to appear racist, Asia can f*** off! There's an immensely screwed-up culture over there, when people can align themselves with glamour teams in a foreign league they have no connection with, while completely ignoring their own league. You wouldn't find that in other countries!

I think that is a bit over the top myself. But raising the role of the Asian FA is certainly interesting in the context of this discussion. For the last world cup, Bahrain and Uzbekistan played each other for the right to face Trinidad and Tobago and it's safe to say murky dealings were afoot. The Uzbeks won the first leg 1-0, but during the match the ref made a big blunder. He correctly gave the Uzbeks a penalty, but an Uzbek player encroached as/before it was taken (and scored), and then the ref made a catastrophic error - he awarded an indirect free kick to the Bahrainis, when legally he should have ordered a re-take of the penalty. The Uzbek players pointed this out to him at the time, but he ignored them, so they pointed it out at the end of the game. The whole situation escalated and FIFA decided to replay the whole match (also delaying the second leg). Bahrain drew the replay in Tashkent 1-1, and then in Bahrain it was 0-0, so they (Bahrain) went through.

It ended up looking like the most spectacular fudge and it's hard not feel for the Uzbeks who were cheated out of a 1-0 (and pretty much 2-0) lead. And the right to face Trinidad and Tobago for the last berth in the World Cup.

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/archive...sid=27212.html
16/10/2009, 6:29 AM
seanfhear

The referees have been made aware(BY FIFAs last minute seeding edict) which teams that FIFA would prefer at the Finals.
These referees work for FIFA and will at the back of their mind know that if they displease FIFA then there progress within that organisation will be affected.

Referees will want to ref big matches and if they get the wrong results in the play-offs then they may be reffing lower level matches for the rest of their careers.
16/10/2009, 8:33 AM
endabob1

Quote:

Originally Posted by seanfhear

The referees have been made aware(BY FIFAs last minute seeding edict) which teams that FIFA would prefer at the Finals.
These referees work for FIFA and will at the back of their mind know that if they displease FIFA then there progress within that organisation will be affected.

Referees will want to ref big matches and if they get the wrong results in the play-offs then they may be reffing lower level matches for the rest of their careers.

Bingo, someone has at last made the connection. Referees can be influenced by things other than cash, coke & hookers (Anderlecht's inducements to 1984 Uefa Cup semi referee allegedly included all 3!). If you are a FIFA referee & you are in charge of a game lets say Portugal v Bosnia in a play-off and you know FIFA want Ronaldo & his mates to win, there is a FIFA assesor in the crowd, pretty soon they'll be announcing who will referee at the World Cup, you're borderline as to whether you make that elite list or not.....
16/10/2009, 9:07 AM
Den Perry

Quote:

Originally Posted by endabob1

Bingo, someone has at last made the connection. Referees can be influenced by things other than cash, coke & hookers (Anderlecht's inducements to 1984 Uefa Cup semi referee allegedly included all 3!). If you are a FIFA referee & you are in charge of a game lets say Portugal v Bosnia in a play-off and you know FIFA want Ronaldo & his mates to win, there is a FIFA assesor in the crowd, pretty soon they'll be announcing who will referee at the World Cup, you're borderline as to whether you make that elite list or not.....

If I was a referee and was ready to be influenced, I'd like it to be the "Anderlecht Way"...
16/10/2009, 10:13 AM
blobbyblob

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2...daan-world-cup

Be interesting to see if this fat fupper turns up in Croker.
16/10/2009, 10:28 AM
Emmet7

Thanks for that blobbyblob.

It's not just Ronaldo. I am sure they want Arshavin from Russia there or Henry and Ribery from France. Greece I think they could live without.

If we were to get a dodgy ref who was biased towards a seeded team, let's hope we are playing Greece and none of the others, as the incentive to let the seeded team win wouldn't be as big.

It's not just in soccer refs are biased towards the bigger teams. George Hook always used to complain about how the bigger teams in Rugby always got the breaks and the soft penalties whereas the lesser teams were penalised for nothing.

And remember who the main man is in UEFA? Platini, a French man. It's not impossible to imagine shady deals behind closed doors on choosing who the refs are.
16/10/2009, 10:42 AM
ArdeeBhoy

It won't be a 'dodgy' ref, but one who's par for the course, doing FIFA's bidding.

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