A different view on the Stadium issue

from the Letters page of the Irish Times


DO SOCCER FANS DESERVE A STADIUM?

Madam, - Tom Humphries (LockerRoom, January 5th) is spot-on in his comment on the National Stadium mess. GAA people are more tuned-in and quicker off the mark than all of the other sports bodies put together.

The entire organisation, from club members to the president, proudly work almost as a unit to achieve their successes, and they are many, culminating in the building of their own massive stadium. And yes, it is their own property, and well deserved.

I know what it is like to try and engender an interest in international standard facilities with people who are simply too thick, smugly arrogant, or just plain lazy.

Some years ago I addressed a Republic of Ireland supporters' meeting on the very subject of a national stadium, and it became obvious that if I wasn't offering free drink or cheap flights to Manchester or London, I might just as well shut up.

On another occasion outside Lansdowne Road, as I distributed leaflets to punters at a Ireland-Russia friendly condemning the bedraggled state of the stadium, I was heckled by groups of drunks for "letting our city down" and subjected to cries of "Lansdowne is the best venue in Europe."

Our supporters, when abroad, are said to be the best behaved. I sometimes wonder: would that be because they are unable to stay on their feet for long enough to misbehave?

The unpalatable truth for supporters of world-class facilities in this country is painfully obvious. The majority of fans are so wedded to their almost daily dose of Premiership football and staying on-side with the ever rising cost of Sky sports and of course the "few" pints, that they don't have sufficient time to lobby their local representatives on the less important issue of a national stadium.

Even Bertie has come to realise they just don't deserve it. - Yours, etc.,

NIALL GINTY, The Demesne, Howth Road, Killester, Dublin 5.
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IMO, the only problem with this letter is the statement that Ahern actually realises something. Thats simply unbelieveable.

agree 100% patsh. the guy has it almost spot on. only chance bertie has of realising it is if he'll get votes out of it

Nail on the head.

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Our supporters, when abroad, are said to be the best behaved. I sometimes wonder: would that be because they are unable to stay on their feet for long enough to misbehave?

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Like all fans the majority are impeccably behaved, but the muppets are there all the same.

no, WE deserve one. The vast majority of people who call themselves football fans in this country don't, and the FAI certainly don't. Its a double-edged swrod really.

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Originally posted by nifan
Like all fans the majority are impeccably behaved, but the muppets are there all the same.

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There's a much higher percentage of true fans (and of eL fans, coincidentally enough!) on away trips. I think the myth of Ireland having the best fans in the world should be changed to having the best travelling fans in the world - and there's a huge difference.

Interesting - and depressing - viewpoint in the letter though.

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Originally posted by patsh
from the Letters page of the Irish Times
Our supporters, when abroad, are said to be the best behaved. I sometimes wonder: would that be because they are unable to stay on their feet for long enough to misbehave?

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That is a very ignorant and childish statement!
Trying to degrade the credibility of the case of the FAI by insinuating the fans are drunks!
Anyone who ever travelled away to an Ireland game would see that the behaviour is generally spot on.
We've had GAA teams being thrown off flights because they were drunk and disorderly not to mention the state of the supporters at championship games around the country every summer. I certainly would never use such a generalisation in an attempt to deny GAA supporters their own national stadium.
The simple fact is that Bernard O'Byrne brought the FAI within touching distance of having, their own ground, but Bertie stepped in, bribed the FAI and Bernard was hounded out over misuse of an FAI credit card. The GAA got their money off the government and off the people of Ireland. It doesn't make them better people or more organised. For years the foolish folk of this simple minded land have been funding the Catholic Church through some sense of duty or purely out of habit. The GAA have capitalised on the same misguided loyalty. Like the promoters of a protestant religion, the FAI will always rely on the financial support of a minority.
Football isn’t about standing outside a dilapidated stadium, handing out leaflets.
It’s about the skill of the players, the roar of the crowd and the range of emotions experienced in 90 minutes.
Whether or not supporters of any code deserve a stadium is a futile discussion. Whether some of our finest sports people deserve a venue worthy of their world class ability should not even be debated.
For most people who attend Lansdowne Rd. they’re not bothered if they’re sitting on temporary seats or if the rain gets you no matter where you sit. They’re there for the football and will continue to go no matter where the game is played.
For security and safety Lansdowne Rd needs to be redeveloped.
That will also increase capacity which will allow a greater number of people experience the magic of international football. Who has the right to deny that?
We will get our stadium.
Even if I have to give every minute of my free time to carrying a hod or swinging a pick, we will get our international stadium.

Niall Ginty is back! :D

I was wondering where Niall had got to! Some years ago Niall Ginty established the National Stadium Action Group. As far as I know he was pretty much the only member which was a pity as he did some very good work and spent a lot of his own time and money in trying to get people interested in supporting a National Stadium.

I wouldn't agree with a lot of what Niall wrote but his heart is in the right place. Supporting that well known GAAHman Tom Humphries who doesn't miss a chance to trumpet is support for the bogfighters and slag off the beautiful game is not a good idea! :mad:

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Originally posted by Conor74
Hold on their a minute, I can accept the fact that you may dislike Bertie Ahern. God knows I've tried to convert you often enough!

But I cannot agree with someone whose basic premise is that GAA supporters are all round beter people than 'soccer' fans, and we don't deserve a stadium. You mean to say that all of you who knock Bertie on the stadium issue agree that we should never have had one anyway?

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My intention in posting the letter was to simply show another point of view on the issue.

A good point is that the GAA got up off their backside, got together themselves and built their stadiums. They got some help from Government coffers, but I would think they deserve that. Ahern also makes sure that he is seen as a high profile supporter of gaelic football.

On the other hand, the FAI deserves the same level of financial support, but the difference is that the FAI cannot get their act together to build the Stadium. It is a fact that the only time they did get plans together, Ahern did shaft them, and made sure that the FAI would never get Eircom Park built. Along with that, Ahern is one of the biggest cheerleaders for the premeirship in this country, never passing up a chance to profess his undying love for Man U.

There is quite a contrast in the attitude and actions of Ahern towards the two organisations. If Ahern really had the interests of soccer in this country at heart, we would have had a stadium long ago.

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Originally posted by patsh
My intention in posting the letter was to simply show another point of view on the issue.

A good point is that the GAA got up off their backside, got together themselves and built their stadiums. They got some help from Government coffers, but I would think they deserve that. Ahern also makes sure that he is seen as a high profile supporter of gaelic football.

On the other hand, the FAI deserves the same level of financial support, but the difference is that the FAI cannot get their act together to build the Stadium. It is a fact that the only time they did get plans together, Ahern did shaft them, and made sure that the FAI would never get Eircom Park built. Along with that, Ahern is one of the biggest cheerleaders for the premeirship in this country, never passing up a chance to profess his undying love for Man U.

There is quite a contrast in the attitude and actions of Ahern towards the two organisations. If Ahern really had the interests of soccer in this country at heart, we would have had a stadium long ago.

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The GAA got their money in good times and good luck to them. The bigotry etc is another argument.

The F.A.I. had plans for a stadium that were scuppered. it was the right decision to abandon them given what was on offer. with hindsight they should have got guarantees from the government

I'm no fan of Bertie but has was shafted by the PDs on this one. FF might be in government but the PDs are in power.

Lets hope it finally gets sorted this month but I am convinced it will not be and that it will be buried in committees.

As for Bertie being a true gaaman or football man or even a rugby man well he is a populist and he'll be all things to all people.

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Originally posted by Peadar
Like the promoters of a protestant religion, the FAI will always rely on the financial support of a minority.

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Minority???

Football is the most popular sport in the state. Including the 6C it is even more so. Have a look at the TV audience figures for All Ireland finals and compare them to Republic internationals. The Beautiful Game wins out every time. Compare the reaction and interest throughout the country between and All Ireland final and an Ireland match in the World Cup. No comparison whatsoever.

Where the GAAH wins is the attendance at live matches. However, the competition from Soccer and Rugby, apart from internationals, is largely non-existent.

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Originally posted by republic
Minority???

Football is the most popular sport in the state. Including the 6C it is even more so. Have a look at the TV audience figures for All Ireland finals and compare them to Republic internationals. The Beautiful Game wins out every time. Compare the reaction and interest throughout the country between and All Ireland final and an Ireland match in the World Cup. No comparison whatsoever.

Where the GAAH wins is the attendance at live matches. However, the competition from Soccer and Rugby, apart from internationals, is largely non-existent.

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apart from Peader's comment being sectarian.

Just to echo Republic's comments,
Football is also the most played sport in this country. It far outstrips gaa in playing numbers. Even in Kerry they have more football players now than gaelic players.

Domestic football in the country loses out to the GAA as a spectator sport as our football fans mainly support Man Utd and Liverpool rather than Cork City and Shelbourne. Sadly Liverpool and Manyoo could fill Corke Park every week but Shels can't fill tolka.

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Originally posted by Conor74
Thank Christ someone else has said it.

I know FF deserve flak over this affair, particularly Bertie, but in the rush for some party political condemnation we overlook the FAI who royally screwed up on this one. Not to have sought any security in the matter, perhaps a charge over the lands at Abbotstown, and to pin all our hopes on the promise of a politician was insanity.

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OK, lets get a few points straight.
1. The MAIN responsibility for soccer not having a stadium of it's own in this country definitely lies with the FAI.
2. NO other politician in this country trumpets his supposed love of sport and soccer so much as Ahern.

So, no matter how disparaging you want to be about Eircom Park, if Ahern, (or FF/PD/whoever you want to blame), had any real interest in soccer, he would have been, if not supportive, at least neutral on the issue. Instead he actively worked against the proposal and put it down at every hands turn, ably abetted by his chief cheerleader Dunphy. Anyone who lines himself up with Mr. "Dublin Dons", deserves all the abuse he recieves.

Finally, to my eternal frustration, the FAI continue to thrash aimlesly about on this issue. Instead of throwing their lot in with the highly dodgy rugger shower, Rooney should be meeting regularly with Sean Kelly, to get advice, help and know how on how to go about running a spporting organisation in this country.

[SIZE=1]And Conor, I really don't want to get into a political argument. If you cannot see the error of your ways by now, you never will ![/SIZE] ;)

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Originally posted by gspain
apart from Peader's comment being sectarian.

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I think you should look up the definition of sectarian and then explain how you apply it to my post.

As for the comment by republic about football being the most popular sport, what I was talking about was in terms of money contributed by the people of Ireland to football in Ireland with regard to the money contributed to the GAA.
If football is so popular then how come the game struggles financially in this country?
I used religion as an example. No one needs to get into a battle about sectarianism.

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Originally posted by patsh
...Ahern is one of the biggest cheerleaders for the premeirship in this country, never passing up a chance to profess his undying love for Man U.

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Don't forget that this is a man who referred to the undoubted class of Ole Gunnar "Socksler" and Luke "Chapman". The words 'bandwagon' and 'glory supporter' come to mind.

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Originally posted by Peadar
If football is so popular then how come the game struggles financially in this country?

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Because:

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Originally posted by gspain
Domestic football in the country loses out to the GAA as a spectator sport as our football fans mainly support Man Utd and Liverpool rather than Cork City and Shelbourne. Sadly Liverpool and Manyoo could fill Corke Park every week but Shels can't fill tolka.

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Originally posted by John83
Because:

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I think you guys should read what people post before flying off the handle. The GAA benefit from the vast sums of money generated from attendance figures and therefore it was easier for them the build their own stadium. Having said that they still needed a substantial contribution from the tax payers via our taoiseach and the bias of his generosity.
None of the above indicates that the GAA and its supporters are better people than the FAI and its supporters and therefore are no more or less entitled to a national stadium.
It may hurt the delicate feelings of Conor to admit it but Bertie Ahern destroyed eircom Park for his own gain so that he may be imortalised by his white elephant. We now have nothing only the promise that the government will discuss the issue further.
Charlie Haughy's student has learned well and is truely the master of political corruption!

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Originally posted by Peadar
It may hurt the delicate feelings of Conor to admit it but Bertie Ahern destroyed eircom Park for his own gain so that he may be imortalised by his white elephant. We now have nothing only the promise that the government will discuss the issue further.

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Regardless of Conors feelings .... that is what the whole country or anyone with a brain in their head percieved the whole thing to be.


Lads, this guy standing outside Lansdowne ... what is the story with him. Is he a fruit and nut cake ? Where is he from ... never heard of him and his campaign before ?


One point that he made though was the GAAaahhh work as a unit, from the unwaged to the waged, from the depths of whatever god forsaken town, right up to the elite at HQ (the guys that are allowed use the lift) ..... where as the FAI/the supporters/junior football/schoolboys/etc. do not, but maybe that is where the problem lies !!


P.S. I hate this thread

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Originally posted by A face


Lads, this guy standing outside Lansdowne ... what is the story with him. Is he a fruit and nut cake ? Where is he from ... never heard of him and his campaign before ?

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Niall Ginty spent a lot of his own time and money trying to promote the concept of a National Stadium. His heart at least was in the right place. It seems that he may have become somewhat disillusioned recently with the lack of progress.

He was actually involved, to some extent, with the Dublin Dons proposal. Not especially that he wanted to see Premiership football in Dublin but rather because at that time it offered the best chance of a proper football stadium being built. Property developer Owen O'Callaghan had received planning permission for a 40,000 seater stadium with to be built in Quarryvale and I think Niall Ginty was one of the main supporters of that proposal. However, at the end of the day I don't think it particularly mattered to him where the stadium was built and whether there was an anchor tenant or not.

Fran Rooney was on RTE's Questions & Answers last night.

Some interesting points.

1) Jim McDaid still favours the 80,000 option at Abbotstown.

2) Audience generally in favour of stadium.

3) Alan Hunter has a mate - anothe rmember of the IFSA there.

4) Enda Kenny made a significant statement backing the stadium and saying that FG will facilitate pushing this through quickly and made comments re dithering etc - my reading of this is that he expects the government to long finger a decision again.

5) Rooney kept stressing the need for a decision but remained silent when Abbottstown was mentioned by McDaid. I assume he would still be thrilled if Abbotstown was given the go ahead.

6) McDaid was very pessimistic re getting planning permission through for Lansdowne without years of delay - he does have a point here.

7) 3 options still o nthe table - 50,000 at Lansdowne, 65,000 or 80,000 at Abbotstown.

While a finished stadium in Lansdowne would be the bette rprospect the more I think about it Abbotstown makes sense - no planning issues, no need to move abroad while being built. However I still don't trust this government to make a decision.

How many times would we sellout the Brazil friendly at an 80,000 seater Abbottstown next month????