Our competitive record against decent tems this decade.

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31/03/2009, 6:06 PM
paul_oshea

im thinking you put those german games in the wrong order...
31/03/2009, 6:26 PM
mypost

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciaran

The complete list of our results against teams of reasonable ability (roughly 30th or higher on the FIFA rankings i.e. not fodder teams)

It ends up as Won: 1, Drawn: 15, Lost: 6

So we've lost 6 of 24 games in 8 years. We are unbeaten in the current campaign to boot.

I would judge Georgia, Montenegro, and Albania to also be of reasonable difficulty, certainly for a team of our resources, yet despite winning 5 of those 7 games, they were not included.

Judging teams by world rankings is stupid, as they can fluctuate wildly over considerable time. We were top seeds for the 04 qualifiers and the highest ranked team in the group, but 4th seeds for the 08 qualifiers. Last year, we were behind Northern Britland, now we're ahead of them.

We are in the toughest group for these qualifiers, with no walkover opponents. We have taken more second placed points than several other similiar placed teams in other groups to date. A lot of progress has been made, and more will be made over the coming months.
31/03/2009, 8:28 PM
EAFC_rdfl

Quote:

Originally Posted by mypost

I would judge Georgia, Montenegro, and Albania to also be of reasonable difficulty, certainly for a team of our resources, yet despite winning 5 of those 7 games, they were not included.

especially if Israel are already included
31/03/2009, 8:40 PM
SkStu

Quote:

Originally Posted by mypost

So we've lost 6 of 24 games in 8 years. We are unbeaten in the current campaign to boot.

I would judge Georgia, Montenegro, and Albania to also be of reasonable difficulty, certainly for a team of our resources, yet despite winning 5 of those 7 games, they were not included..

i dont agree. If compiling this sort of data we should only consider results against the top four seeds, at most. Its "decent teams" in the title, not "reasonably difficult" teams.
31/03/2009, 8:56 PM
irishultra

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkStu

i dont agree. If compiling this sort of data we should only consider results against the top four seeds, at most. Its "decent teams" in the title, not "reasonably difficult" teams.

i hate when the man on the street says ''we're good against the big teams' eh no not really...as a team we never really play above ourselves...we just stay the same which is why we have so many draws
31/03/2009, 8:58 PM
Jicked

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkStu

i dont agree. If compiling this sort of data we should only consider results against the top four seeds, at most. Its "decent teams" in the title, not "reasonably difficult" teams.

So why consider our record against top four seeds in one group (Israel, the time we didn't do well) and not other times when we have done well (Iran, Slovakia, Cyprus or Georgia this time round). THe negativity of Irish fans is amazing, if we dropped points against a fourth seed its because we were awful and it needs to be documented, but if we won those games well ah sure you'd expect us to be beating the likes of them so forget about it.

Overall the record is extremely healthy, turn 1 or 2 of those draws in to wins is all it would have taken to be a big success against bigger teams. Yet still people moan that we're terrible, and somehow get the impression we were hammered on Saturday night??
31/03/2009, 9:04 PM
SkStu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jicked

So why consider our record against top four seeds in one group (Israel, the time we didn't do well) and not other times when we have done well (Iran, Slovakia, Cyprus or Georgia this time round). THe negativity of Irish fans is amazing, if we dropped points against a fourth seed its because we were awful and it needs to be documented, but if we won those games well ah sure you'd expect us to be beating the likes of them so forget about it.

i dont get the point you are making. Surely we are expected to beat 5th and 6th seeds? Including the fourth seeds in our "record against decent teams" is actually being quite generous.
31/03/2009, 9:34 PM
Jicked

I agree, but if you're going to include fourth seeds in one of the groups (the time we played Israel who were 4th), then you have to consider the fourth seeds in ALL groups, not just only count the time we didn't win!
31/03/2009, 10:13 PM
SkStu

agreed. Thats what i was proposing...
31/03/2009, 10:51 PM
Jicked

...partly because we beat them?
01/04/2009, 1:03 AM
SkStu

no but seriously Ciaran, stick in the rest of the results against the 4th seeded teams and lets see what it looks like then. Id be interested to know but am disgustingly lazy.
01/04/2009, 3:54 AM
mypost

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciaran

they're certainly a team of decent quality while the likes of Slovakia, Montenegro etc were never really in the hunt for qualification.

Nor were Scotland in 87, still doesn't stop people claiming that was our last big win away from home. :rolleyes:

Unless it's a 6th seed, most teams in groups will give you a competitive game, regardless of ranking. Ever heard of "no easy games in international football??" :confused:

There are people claiming that tomorrow night is a walkover for the Italians. The same Italians who struggled to win their other home games so far, and had to rely on an injury time winner in Cyprus?? :confused:
01/04/2009, 9:08 AM
Stuttgart88

When Israel equalised in the last minute I remember being gutted not just for the points dropped but because I honestly thought that that one result could have given the team the confidence to go away and keep winning. It was a tremendous opportunity lost and I would certainly have counted it as a meaningful away win. So was Scotland by the way, not a win of epic proportions but a quality away win nonetheless. It's a pity the 4-0 in Denmark was a friendly!