The meeja

So, Ireland won because of great planning, hard work, and a determination - all very interesting but completely rubbish.

Ireland won because Stephen Jones missed a penalty. Ireland were in a position to win because of planning hard work etc etc

Like the Blackburn League win in 1995, the Offaly All Ireland in 1982, the Dublin All Ireland in 1995, the meeja assign causes and effects to results as opposed to performances.

If Jones kicks the pen, what would the reaction have been ? Great planning ? hard work ? Determination ? Crap - it would have been - Wallace chokes to give away pen - O'gara should be shot for bad kicking - irish continue to be flakey at the key moment

Andy Cole missed a bucket of chances at Upton Park and all of a sudden Kenny Dalglish is a world beating manager - the fact is that Blackburn did their best to pi** that league away

Unfortunately the people who know this (including anybody reading this) understand the fickleness of sport - the fact that Wales and France and everybody else planned and worked hard and had determination - this time Ireland were in a position to win - the fixtures were to our favour and Jones missed a pen - so can we please drop the guff ?

Thank you.

I'm here all week

While I agree with the sentiments, luck plays a huge part in sport and many an Irish team has little of that commodity over the years. The Irish team was the better side on Saturday and deserved to win. The fact that they almost threw it away was totally overlooked by the panel at the end of the game who never referred to the last minute penalty and who didn't show the replay. However, Against the Head last night put everything in perspective and was really well done.

If we lose to Bulgaria, the Irish team will be crucified by the media as overpaid under performers and there will be lots of unfavourable comparisions with the rugby team (overlooking the fact that this was the first grand slam in 60 years). Hopefully, it won't come to that.

We won the game but almost lost it through last of discipline. That should never be forgotton and is a sobering lesson. Hayes giving away two penalties in Scotland for not binding properly almost did the same thing.

But let's enjoy the moment and forget the media hype. Most of us will be dead by the time the next one comes around if history is anything to go by.

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Originally Posted by Angus

So, Ireland won because of great planning, hard work, and a determination - all very interesting but completely rubbish.

Ireland won because Stephen Jones missed a penalty. Ireland were in a position to win because of planning hard work etc etc

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You cant have the latter without the former. Ireland probably wouldnt be managed by Trap if Stan hadnt of been given the job first. Enjoy the moment and take the lemon out of your mouth.

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Originally Posted by Angus

So, Ireland won because of great planning, hard work, and a determination - all very interesting but completely rubbish.

Ireland won because Stephen Jones missed a penalty. Ireland were in a position to win because of planning hard work etc etc

Like the Blackburn League win in 1995, the Offaly All Ireland in 1982, the Dublin All Ireland in 1995, the meeja assign causes and effects to results as opposed to performances.

If Jones kicks the pen, what would the reaction have been ? Great planning ? hard work ? Determination ? Crap - it would have been - Wallace chokes to give away pen - O'gara should be shot for bad kicking - irish continue to be flakey at the key moment

Andy Cole missed a bucket of chances at Upton Park and all of a sudden Kenny Dalglish is a world beating manager - the fact is that Blackburn did their best to pi** that league away

Unfortunately the people who know this (including anybody reading this) understand the fickleness of sport - the fact that Wales and France and everybody else planned and worked hard and had determination - this time Ireland were in a position to win - the fixtures were to our favour and Jones missed a pen - so can we please drop the guff ?

Thank you.

I'm here all week

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a bitter post to say the least

everybody know luck plays a part in sport. Ireland did get a little lucky nobody will deny that but Jones missed Ireland won
How many times in the past have the Irish been unlucky in whatever sport?

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Originally Posted by Youths4Ever

a bitter post to say the least

everybody know luck plays a part in sport. Ireland did get a little lucky nobody will deny that but Jones missed Ireland won
How many times in the past have the Irish been unlucky in whatever sport?

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Re-read my post - I am criticising the media reaction. The media talked up our planning and input work and determination - none of which would have been mentioned in the event Jones kicked the pen.

The media comment is intellectually corrupt and is purely results based - it ascribes cause and effect to results - not to performances. More precisely the Irish team deserve huge credit for consistently being a force in world rugby - but all of the media comment is results based.

I am saying that the media comment masks the underlying cause and effects that actually informs the performance.

I am bitter at the crapness of media comment - nothing to do with the Irish victory

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Originally Posted by Angus

So, Ireland won because of great planning, hard work, and a determination - all very interesting but completely rubbish.

Ireland won because Stephen Jones missed a penalty. Ireland were in a position to win because of planning hard work etc etc

Like the Blackburn League win in 1995, the Offaly All Ireland in 1982, the Dublin All Ireland in 1995, the meeja assign causes and effects to results as opposed to performances.

If Jones kicks the pen, what would the reaction have been ? Great planning ? hard work ? Determination ? Crap - it would have been - Wallace chokes to give away pen - O'gara should be shot for bad kicking - irish continue to be flakey at the key moment

Andy Cole missed a bucket of chances at Upton Park and all of a sudden Kenny Dalglish is a world beating manager - the fact is that Blackburn did their best to pi** that league away

Unfortunately the people who know this (including anybody reading this) understand the fickleness of sport - the fact that Wales and France and everybody else planned and worked hard and had determination - this time Ireland were in a position to win - the fixtures were to our favour and Jones missed a pen - so can we please drop the guff ?

Thank you.

I'm here all week

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You are so wrong on so many levels. France were terrible this year due to poor organisation and a useless coach. Ireland won because they dominated the game scoring more tries and more points. and anyone who really knows rugby and has been genuinely following it like i have would tell you that if Wales got a penalty from that distance at any other time in the match even 2 minutes earlier Jones would not have taken the option as he has never been accurate from 40 yards or more. so give credit were credit is due.

Ireland wond the Grand Slam because no-one could beat them how can that be simply luck?

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Originally Posted by kellco88

You are so wrong on so many levels. France were terrible this year due to poor organisation and a useless coach. Ireland won because they dominated the game scoring more tries and more points. and anyone who really knows rugby and has been genuinely following it like i have would tell you that if Wales got a penalty from that distance at any other time in the match even 2 minutes earlier Jones would not have taken the option as he has never been accurate from 40 yards or more. so give credit were credit is due.

Ireland wond the Grand Slam because no-one could beat them how can that be simply luck?

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OK let me have another go - yes Ireland had excellent preparation, an excellent coach and the best squad. But if Jones had kicked the pen, all of the media comment would have been the opposite ie Ireland choke again / O Gara had a bad 6 Nations / squad not up to it etc etc

I am not criticising the team at all - I am saying the media are jokers - we in a knife edge game and it is all down to preparation - we lose a knife edge game and it is because the preparation was not up to snuff

I get your point Angus, but thats par for the course now. When Barry McGuigan won his world title he was "The British Boxer Barry McGuigan", when he got beaten he was "Irish Boxer Barry McGuigan". Its only lazy journo's and trash papers really though.

I dont think every media outlet would report it as you suggest, Jones only took the kick as in the previous 78 mins they hadnt threatened the line (no point in going for line out) time almost up so they proably werent going to continue to build phases in the hope they would get a peno under the posts. Henson had said he "didnt fancy" it. It was a % call on Jones part and fair play to him for taking it on. The way in which Ireland had approached the previous 78 mins had forced Jones to make that call.

Anyone who watches or reports on Rugby regularly would know that.

[QUOTE=centre mid;1128952]I get your point Angus, but thats par for the course now. When Barry McGuigan won his world title he was "The British Boxer Barry McGuigan", when he got beaten he was "Irish Boxer Barry McGuigan". Its only lazy journo's and trash
QUOTE]

he did have a british passport to be fair:)
no - liz mccolgan is the best example of that

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Originally Posted by Angus

OK let me have another go - yes Ireland had excellent preparation, an excellent coach and the best squad. But if Jones had kicked the pen, all of the media comment would have been the opposite ie Ireland choke again / O Gara had a bad 6 Nations / squad not up to it etc etc

I am not criticising the team at all - I am saying the media are jokers - we in a knife edge game and it is all down to preparation - we lose a knife edge game and it is because the preparation was not up to snuff

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isnt that just the nature of, not just journalism, but life in general though? Winners are hero's and losers are villains.

Plus your post is full of hypotheses. Why not forget about what the media might have said if Ireland had lost to Jones' penalty. Savour the moment and forget the if's, and's and but's.

[quote=bennocelt;1128983]

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Originally Posted by centre mid

I get your point Angus, but thats par for the course now. When Barry McGuigan won his world title he was "The British Boxer Barry McGuigan", when he got beaten he was "Irish Boxer Barry McGuigan". Its only lazy journo's and trash
QUOTE]

he did have a british passport to be fair:)
no - liz mccolgan is the best example of that

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Are you sure McGuigan had a British passport?

Another example of the above is Eddie Irvine. If he had very good drive at any particular GP he was a British driver, if he had a bad one - he was an Irish driver.
I also remember when Heinz-Harald Frentzen won the Italian GP for Jordan in 1999 and Murray Walker said, after the German national anthem had finished for Frentzen, ".....and now GSTQ/the British national anthem."
In fairness to Murray, he did apologise profoundly afterwards.

[QUOTE=The Fly;1129656]

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

Are you sure McGuigan had a British passport?

Another example of the above is Eddie Irvine. If he had very good drive at any particular GP he was a British driver, if he had a bad one - he was an Irish driver.
I also remember when Heinz-Harald Frentzen won the Italian GP for Jordan in 1999 and Murray Walker said, after the German national anthem had finished for Frentzen, ".....and now GSTQ/the British national anthem."
In fairness to Murray, he did apologise profoundly afterwards.

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yeah he did - he got one later on in his career - which at the time made a lot of people peed of here

i also remember the murray walker thing - man that was funny:)