Julio Cesar -Inter 'keeper

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24/02/2009, 8:58 PM
Stuttgart88

Julio Cesar -Inter 'keeper

There was a lot of talk on the Ireland forum recently regarding Shay's standing among the world's best goalkeepers. Buffon, Shay (of course!), Casillas and Van Der Saar were the only contenders in our biased view. I think most agree that Cech has at least temporarily lost his place at the top table.

Now, I've only seen Julio Cesar (spelling?) of Inter 3 times, all recently - Brazil v Italy, the Milan derby and bits of the Inter v United game tonight (I was watching Arsenal).

However, on the little I've seen of him I've been highly impressed. He's athletic, has quick reflexes, has good judgment & reading, good hands, takes pressure off his defence at key moments, takes a high ball well and - crucially in my opinion - deals with good inswinging deliveries very well.

Ok, so only 3 sightings hardly make a summer but what do others think? Does Brazil finally have the top class 'keeper that the rest of their team deserves? I never rated Dida myself.
24/02/2009, 9:11 PM
rambler14

A very good keeper. It's rare to find a Brazilian who doesn't flap at crosses and is generally good all round and this guy is one of the best i've seen in a while.

He was fantastic tonight. Man of the Match by a mile!
24/02/2009, 9:18 PM
eirebhoy

he seems to have cut out the errors alright.
24/02/2009, 9:21 PM
superfrank

Julio Cesar has been a pretty good keeper for years now. Remember I first saw him about 2004/05 and didn't think he was that good but he's come along a lot in recent years and he's easily one of the top keepers in the World now. Think he learned a lot from being number two to Toldo for a while.

Brazilian keepers have hardly ever been that good. Dida and Helton two examples. I always thought Rogerio Ceni was better than those two. Taffarel was pretty good too.

Also, Shay is nowhere near the top four keepers in the world. I wouldn't even have him in the top four in the Premier, tbh.
24/02/2009, 9:24 PM
Stuttgart88

Quote:

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

he seems to have cut out the errors alright.

I've only seen him 3 times as I said and all in the last fortnight, but is he known as being error prone?

Maybe he's just having a good month but there are certain weaknesses which even very good keepers are prone to and this guy seems to cope with most things well. Keeping goals is far more than just stopping shots and the things I look for in a keeper are evident in this guy.

Still eb, I'd have said the same about Boruc until this year, but I think he's good enough to get his form back if he applies himself. Maybe he needs a move...
24/02/2009, 9:27 PM
Stuttgart88

Quote:

Originally Posted by superfrank

Also, Shay is nowhere near the top four keepers in the world. I wouldn't even have him in the top four in the Premier, tbh.

I would tbh. What 4 would you say are better in EPL? If you say Reina, Howard or Schwarzer I'll explode!

However, I can't comment on a world view as if I've only really noticed Julio Cesar now, How many others am I unaware of?
24/02/2009, 9:36 PM
eirebhoy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I've only seen him 3 times as I said and all in the last fortnight, but is he known as being error prone?

He definitely was when I had a bigger interest in the league over a year ago. Here's how Tim Vickery rated him when he was playing in Brazil:

"No doubt that he's currently Brazil's number one, and he's been coming up big for them at important moments.

It's always nice when players exceed your expectations, and that's certainly the case with him. I watched him grow at Flamengo, and I have to say that I never rated him.

I thought he was athletic, but poor off his line, error prone and untidy, the type of keeper who saves one and throws away two, and I didn't think he'd come off at Inter.

I'm pleased to be proved wrong, he's first choice for Inter and Brazil on merit."

Quote:

Still eb, I'd have said the same about Boruc until this year, but I think he's good enough to get his form back if he applies himself. Maybe he needs a move...

I think Boruc is a pure confidence player tbh. Not an error prone keeper when fully confident. See his new tattoo? You really wouldn't want to. :(

Quote:

Originally Posted by superfrank

Also, Shay is nowhere near the top four keepers in the world. I wouldn't even have him in the top four in the Premier, tbh.

Shay is in the very top bracket without a shadow of a doubt. And I'm glad to see he's already put in 2 motm performances for City against Middlesbrough and Liverpool. tbh I feel that because he's Irish people just assume we're overrating him with bias. He's an incredible keeper. No question.
24/02/2009, 9:58 PM
Mr Maroon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

However, I can't comment on a world view as if I've only really noticed Julio Cesar now, How many others am I unaware of?

Vincenzo Fiorillo. Remember the name ;)
24/02/2009, 10:02 PM
Stuttgart88

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Maroon

Vincenzo Fiorillo. Remember the name ;)

Noted!
24/02/2009, 10:03 PM
superfrank

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I would tbh. What 4 would you say are better in EPL? If you say Reina, Howard or Schwarzer I'll explode!

I'd put Friedel, James, Reina, Cech and even VDS ahead of him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

However, I can't comment on a world view as if I've only really noticed Julio Cesar now, How many others am I unaware of?

In the world, there's Buffon, Casillas, Valdes, Frey, Coupet, Abbiatti that are easily better than him. Those are only the ones I've seen regularly enough to judge. There could easily be others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

Shay is in the very top bracket without a shadow of a doubt. And I'm glad to see he's already put in 2 motm performances for City against Middlesbrough and Liverpool. tbh I feel that because he's Irish people just assume we're overrating him with bias. He's an incredible keeper. No question.

I wouldn't say he's over-rated. He is a very good keeper but I think Irish people saying he's one of the best in the world is down to ignorance more than anything. Most Irish people only watch the EPL or the SPL and would only see other keepers in the CL or UEFA Cup.

It works both ways I'm sure. I'd say most people in Europe who don't watch the Premiership would have only seen him playing for Newcastle in the UEFA Cup (albeit, rarely) or in Irish internationals.
24/02/2009, 10:07 PM
NeilMcD

I would not swap Shay Given for any keeper in the world and I am not just an EPL slave. Some of the stuff he has done for Newcastle and Ireland over the years has been amazing. I am not saying he is better than so and so but I would not have any keeper ahead of him.
24/02/2009, 10:12 PM
Razors left peg

Quote:

Originally Posted by superfrank

I'd put Friedel, James, Reina, Cech and even VDS ahead of him.
In the world, there's Buffon, Casillas, Valdes, Frey, Coupet, Abbiatti that are easily better than him. Those are only the ones I've seen regularly enough to judge. There could easily be others.

The fact that you say James and Valdes are better than Given makes me want to send for the men in white coats for you.... and I would argue about some of the others on ur list too
24/02/2009, 10:14 PM
Stuttgart88

Quote:

Originally Posted by superfrank

I'd put Friedel, James, Reina, Cech and even VDS ahead of him.
Valdes, Frey, Coupet,

Friedel I could give you.

James no way, no way whatsoever and I'm actually a fan of James, a very good keeper at his best but far from always at his best.

Reina will be found out in my opinion - the failure to cope with a good inswingers is a fatal error among other weaknesses. I'll grant you that under the current rules his speed upon collection of the ball and his distribution are assets but in no way would I think that even his own defenders have anything approaching full confidence in him. Still young mind you but still...

Cech has it all but is woefully off his best form, but has many years to get it back.

In fairness to VDS his personality alone - easlily commanding the no. 1 jersey at OT - is sufficient to be regarded in the top bracket, even if he has technical failings. This is a hell of a hard jersey to wear and he wears it well (figuratively - you all know what I mean).

Valdes has gone up in my estimation since 05/06 but I still find him less than commanding.

Frey and Couper - no way whatsoever. Couper is a classic example of his ego being better than his ability, a goalkeeping equivalent of Nicholas Bendtner in that respect. A couple of good saves in Euro '08 were undermined by truly awful goals conceded. Near post howler against Holland /Robben?

I don't know Abbiatti well enough to comment.
25/02/2009, 6:54 AM
shakermaker1982

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

I would not swap Shay Given for any keeper in the world and I am not just an EPL slave. Some of the stuff he has done for Newcastle and Ireland over the years has been amazing. I am not saying he is better than so and so but I would not have any keeper ahead of him.

Same here. OK maybe Buffon but I think Given is the best goalkeeper in the PL :).

Reina? Why would people want a keeper who cannot catch crosses over someone as solid as Given? Baffles me. Goalkeeping is not just about shot stopping.
25/02/2009, 7:47 AM
Pike B

Casillas is number one for me.
25/02/2009, 7:49 AM
eirebhoy

Quote:

Originally Posted by superfrank

In the world, there's Buffon, Casillas, Valdes, Frey, Coupet, Abbiatti that are easily better than him. Those are only the ones I've seen regularly enough to judge. There could easily be others.

Well Trap watched Abbiati for years as Italy manager and had him in his squads and rates Buffon and Given as the 2 best in the world.
25/02/2009, 10:28 PM
Closed Account 2

Augstin Orion (San Lorenzo) and Carrizo (Lazio) are good Argentine keepers who have broken into the national squad of late. When Carrizo was at River they won the Apertura, when he left they finished bottom of the Argentine league. Once he settles into the Lazio team (Muslera a young keeper from Uruguay is currently in goal for Lazio as he is coming back from an injury) he could do very well.

I rate Given as the best keeper in the Premier League, it's a toss up between him and Brad Friedel, very hard to call but I'd probably just give it to Given. I don't rate any other keepers in the league except maybe Schwarzer (good to average) and Cech before he went off his game. Reina is solid but can be suspect at times, I don't rate Van Der Saar as anything more than average. He's hardly faced any shots in his clean sheet record, and even then Roman Pavlychenko embarrased him with a header at Old Trafford a few weeks ago in the cup. It's fitting that someone as mediocre as him had a last act in international football of being nutmegged by Arshavin in Euro 2008.
25/02/2009, 10:36 PM
Closed Account 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by superfrank

I'd put Friedel, James, Reina, Cech and even VDS ahead of him.
In the world, there's Buffon, Casillas, Valdes, Frey, Coupet, Abbiatti that are easily better than him. Those are only the ones I've seen regularly enough to judge. There could easily be others.

These two couldnt even oust Leo Franco from the Atletico team, Abbiati got a few games when Franco was injured in 2007-8 but this season - maybe I'm biased about him, but I'm not that keen on anyone who publicly admits to being a fascist http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008.../italy.acmilan

Coupet has only played 8 games this season for los colchoneros this season and has lost his place in the France team to Steve Mandana....
27/02/2009, 5:26 PM
Stuttgart88

I was talking about this with some mates. We agreed that a decent test for what is a proper world class 'keeper is to imagine how comfortably he'd hold down the goalkeeping jersey at United. As everyone knows many highly rated keepers have gone there since Schmeichel and the task has been too daunting for most of them.

The jury is out here (at best) on VDS but if nothing else he has had the mental strength, personality and presence for the role. Barthez was dodgy at times and brilliant at times but definitely imposed his personality on the position.

Of the names mentioned above I think James and Reina most defintely wouldn't be considered reliable enough. Cech, Buffon & Casillas would be well capable of the job in my opinion. I also think Shay would, Friedel too. I think the likes of Valdes and Coupet would be found out big time.

On basis of the little I've seen I think Julio Cesar would be a contender.