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Am i alone in thinking this is the biggest joke of a state/country out there?? Palastine went from being a country to what it is today because the hierarchy of the jews told people to go and claim this land that they didnt own as theirs.
I'll probably get dogs abuse but just look at this map of what was and what is now
http://www.sott.net/image/image/9591...estine_map.jpg
The higher you build your barriers, the taller i become....
opening a huge can of worms with this one Jeebus. Suffice to say if i expressed the extent of my dissatisfaction with the actions of and this particular reaction from Israel, i would be lazily accused of being anti-semite and probably barred from the site.
Isreal = 51st state
Hard to talk about as anytime someone queries Israel's policies they are deemed anti-semite, which is just garbage because I have no problem with Jews, just the nation of Israel.
I could go into a rant but basically I view Israel as something akin to the Nazis, and I've argued that their policies will lead to a rise in anti-semitic feeling once again, in fact I think it already has to a certain degree. Jewish jokes seem to be on the rise, I've heard quite a few people say that they don't view the Holocaust in the same light because they now realise Israel would do the exact same thing if given the chance, and in general I think there is a growing feeling of distrust for Jews again.
I don't agree with painting all Jews with the Israel brush, and I certainly don't think the horrors of the Holocaust are lessened because the Israeli government are a bunch of murderers, but I can see why people would think that. Ideal world they should never have been put back in there, even more idyllic world would be America and the western world telling them that Israel as a state has failed and they'll have to pack up and leave
Well we'll not get far with discussing the bigger picture ...causality, naissance of the state etc... particularly if emotive terms like 'failed state' and comparisons with the nazis are being used.
But the behaviour of the Israeli authorities, military and particularly the administration is entirely unacceptable and unmeasured. This wife-beater logic that Israel applies when striking out at the Palestinians is ridiculous.
Be it in Israel, Northern Ireland, the USA or anwhere else -when you slash a path through the innocent to get at the guilty you become the tyrant your enemies claim you are.
But why not compare them with the Nazis? The Zionist regime is a far right, nationalist, racist regime that is constantly annexing surrounding territories, using torture and terror against its opponents and categorising them as lesser people. Sound familiar?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie
There's an amount of that I don't contest. But where does it leave you in terms of stopping the death-toll from rising?Quote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
I think we'd agree that birthrights and land inheritence based on old testament folk tales is not a sound basis for the distribution of property or wealth ...but here we are. Taking back the blank check that the international Jewish community was written in the wake of the horrors put upon it during WW2 isn't practical. Israel is here in some shape or form to stay and some form of equitable solution is going to have to be worked out.
Very well put. It always amazes me that a group of people who went through what they went through during WW2 can act so callously to fellow human beings. Right-wing policies will come undone in the end.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie
That's what I find disgustingly ironic. They're trying to effectively get rid of the Palestinian state atm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Docboy
I just seen a news report, from a Palestinian cameraman on Channel 4 news. Footage after his family's home, a safe-house for women and children, was spefically targeted by Israel. His 12 year old brother and a friend were told to play on the roof so as to be outside and be somewhat safe.
Israel drone flew overhead and hit the house. Footage of just after the incident and as the doctors try in vain to save him.
Just shocking.
To be fair lads, and this is from someone that generally supports the Palestinian side and abhors the actions of the decision makers in Israel, it would seem a few of the new Hamas rockets have been hitting civilian targets too; one during the week hit a school. You could argue that they're not targeted that way on purpose, but if they can't target them properly then they shouldn't be using them.
That being said, the irony of the Israeli actions has always befuddled me, for the reasons already pointed out. It'll come full circle if they're not careful.
adam
I was watching Alaqsa on Arabsat earlier, the hamas channel. Seriously awful images coming across on it, a child with his head opened and what was left of his brains hanging out, truely horrifying stuff. I know it is their channel and they show this for their means as well.
I would be along the same lines as Dahamsta there, Hamas's rockets have been causing equal fear among Isreali civillians for a long time now as well. It will not end well for either side..
I don't believe Israel deliberately target civilians but the same cannot be said of Hamas. That said I think Israel would target terrorist offices even if they using a school as a shield.
IMO it is too easy to take the Palestinian side. Living in Dublin if say terrorists were lobbing rockets in from Meath I would want my armed soldiers to go after them. Hamas are the political leaders in Gaza so I would guess Israel are able to excuse their invasion on those lines.
Israel are using the same tactics they used in South Lebanon against Hezbollah which were probably fairly successful from their point of view.
In my view Israel has every right to protect their own citizens, they were attacked on many occasions and yet no told Hamas to stop doing it and once Israel do it, it is wrong it seems, they are defending their country from attacks, whats wrong with that ?
In response to the first post, Israel was there before Palestine, the Romans called the state of Judea, Palestine. They were a Jewish nation back then, but when the Ottomans took over, the Islamic religion was forced in the area. In theory, they are lucky they got the land they have at the moment.
As Tommy Tiernan says, I applied for planning permission in the Old Testament, its only coming through now.
By that reckoning, the Scandinavians can start reclaiming all the land once under control by the Vikings?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoss
Same difference. Thousand(s of) years ago the world was a completely different place...We've moved on.
Why should Israel claim right to a land that was their's centuries ago?
I agree it is easy to side with Palestine when living in Ireland, but I just find the creation and expansion of the Israeli state that bit unfair on the Palestinians and Arabs who lived there before...
But anyway, back to the here and now...
My old "The Palestinians are a semitic people too" spiel normally works on that. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by jebus
Of course its led to a rise in anti-jew feeling.Quote:
I could go into a rant but basically I view Israel as something akin to the Nazis, and I've argued that their policies will lead to a rise in anti-semitic feeling once again, in fact I think it already has to a certain degree.
Turn on the news man!!
That is fairly mealy mouthed though man.Quote:
I don't agree with painting all Jews with the Israel brush,
By and large (and one must generalise to some extent when dealing with large groups of people) the Jews, as a race, have an awful lot to answer for in the Middle East.
Its not just Muslim extremism that's on the rise you know
People need to stop talking about the Holocaust.Quote:
and I certainly don't think the horrors of the Holocaust
I was a long time ago and I don't see why the world owes Judaism a damn thing as a result of it to be honest.
What about 20 million Russians??
Filthy Reds to a man, woman and child...............
Nonsense.Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
They are using phosphurus shells now the twisted scum.
Imagine that.Quote:
IMO it is too easy to take the Palestinian side.
It being easy to reach the only morally sensible conclusion.
What an absolute nonsense piece of spin.Quote:
Living in Dublin if say terrorists were lobbing rockets in from Meath I would want my armed soldiers to go after them. Hamas are the political leaders in Gaza so I would guess Israel are able to excuse their invasion on those lines.
Last time I checked Dublin hadn't crammed millions of people into Meath so Dublin could steal their land and then spend the next few decades starving and maiming said people within Meath.
If Dublin were to do this then yes, you probably could expect a few rockets whizzing by your schoolyard, and TS to be honest.
You'll notice I didn't even touch on the relative strength of the "retaliation" compared to the "crime"
BTW pete are Hamas lawfully elected representatives or terrorists or both??
The term terrorist being subjective of course.
As yes Israeli interference in Lebanon.Quote:
Israel are using the same tactics they used in South Lebanon against Hezbollah which were probably fairly successful from their point of view
Success story after success story after success story.
And there was no civilians ever targeted there either...................
No one told HamasQuote:
Originally Posted by TheBoss
Are you for real??
Ya but I mean before the Jews were there there was probably a load of camels, so maybe it's the camels land??Quote:
In response to the first post, Israel was there before Palestine, the Romans called the state of Judea, Palestine. They were a Jewish nation back then, but when the Ottomans took over, the Islamic religion was forced in the area. In theory, they are lucky they got the land they have at the moment
I was talking to someone the other day about apartheid in South Africa and they said that the xhosa people (the largest black tribe in SA) had as little claim to the land as white people because they were effectively settlers too, 2000 the xhosa tribe drove the Koi-San people from the fertile lands of the cape, north to the deserts....
This is bascially the sh!te that gets put out in the name of justification of land "ownership", the same stories come out in Palestine, the same was trotted out by the provos in Northern Ireland
The trick is to win your wars years ago when there was no international community and no moral backlash.
Israels leaders are probably old enough to remember the Six day War in 1967 which is possibly the real source of todays problems in the region although Israel is clearly the most powerful state now.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
Photos of dead children buried in rubble will do that to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
There was a picture in the Echo on Wednesday night and i think the Examiner too of a little girl buried in rubble her head sticking out with cuts all over her face.
What do i tell my 5 year old when she asks what happened her?