Ireland Squad named

[Stuttgart88]

I'd hate if Keogh got a start RHM. He should be in the squad as a forward, nothing else.

[irishultra]

Keogh playing right midfield is just a wrong choice. He doesn't even get his game for Wolves.

Trapattoni is a brilliant manager, and I'm delighted to have him but it looks like he is being a puppet in relation to team selection.

[Brendan 82]

Well it looks like he is relying too much on the players he had from the training camp from Portugal. Does he really think he can persist solely with members from that group for the next two years?

[third policeman]

Trapattoni is a brilliant manager, and I'm delighted to have him but it looks like he is being a puppet in relation to team selection.

Not a puppet, just a "genius" determined to show he can get results without the need to deploy one of our most talented players. Maybe I am totally stupid, but given the extremely slender playing resources we have, I would have thought that the first principle of team selection would be "pick your best players."

[boovidge]

I'm not going to criticise Trap until/if we start losing even if I do think some of his choices are baffling.

[Brendan 82]

Not a puppet, just a "genius" determined to show he can get results without the need to deploy one of our most talented players. Maybe I am totally stupid, but given the extremely slender playing resources we have, I would have thought that the first principle of team selection would be "pick your best players."

"pick your best team"

[third policeman]

"pick your best team"



Given

J O' Brien Dunne O'Shea Finnan


S. Reid

McGeady A.Reid Kilbane

Keane Doyle

[lionelhutz]

Given

J O' Brien Dunne O'Shea Finnan


S. Reid

McGeady A.Reid Kilbane

Keane Doyle

I have to say I don't see much wrong with this team. Although I would have Hunt in ahead of Kilbane - Hunt would provide more cover in midfield than Duff and is a much better winger than Kilbane.

As Stutts said earlier, Hunt is as much a left sided midfielder as he is a left winger. I think this would allow Trap to play A Reid ahead of Whelan as Hunt would provide more defensive cover than Duff.

I'd love to see the above team start (with Hunt in for Kilbane) but it's almost definitely going to be Kilbane left full, Finnan right full, Whelan instead of A Reid and Hunt/Keogh on one wing with McGeady on the other.

[Brendan 82]

Given

J O' Brien Dunne O'Shea Finnan


S. Reid

McGeady A.Reid Kilbane

Keane Doyle

:eek: Players out of position all over the place.

[SkStu]

why is Joey O'Brien not an option at DM in place of Whelan?

im sorry but im thinking Trap is pretty much getting his selections as wrong as Stan did. I think the organisation/experience he will bring will see us not getting embarrassed but we are not going to qualify for the world cup without all of our best players on the park for the majority of the games.

[third policeman]

why is Joey O'Brien not an option at DM in place of Whelan?

im sorry but im thinking Trap is pretty much getting his selections as wrong as Stan did. I think the organisation/experience he will bring will see us not getting embarrassed but we are not going to qualify for the world cup without all of our best players on the park for the majority of the games.


Totally agree. And what really worries me is that Trap is almost conceding the point that we dont have enough quality (in his mind) to play our way into the World Cup so we must achieve results by "playing to our traditional strengths" of organisation and physical aggression. He seems to have a stereotype of what Irish football is about, hence his preference for the players who epitomise that stereotype. If he was managing Italy would he prefer Whelan to Reid? I suspect not. The tragedy is that we do have some very good technical players and could embrace a much more progressive style. We should have appointed a Dutch coach rather than someone who believes that we are a poor man's England. Of course I stand to look totally stupid if his approach pays off, but I honestly suspect it wont.

[tetsujin1979]

im sorry but im thinking Trap is pretty much getting his selections as wrong as Stan didFinnan/Kelly at left full? Joey O'Brien at centre half in one game, then centre mid in the next? Steven Reid on the right?
Can't see Trap making any one of these choices.

[ken foree]

i think andy reid is terrific with the ball and works very hard without it. though i watched him a bit closer without the ball v. spurs and at times he was getting murdered for pace as younger players seemed to glide past him as if he weren't there. again, he's one of our most skillfull players, undoubtedly, but with the trappatoni-goggles on i could understand his omission from the starting 11 more logically.

[Stuttgart88]

Totally agree. And what really worries me is that Trap is almost conceding the point that we dont have enough quality (in his mind) to play our way into the World Cup so we must achieve results by "playing to our traditional strengths" of organisation and physical aggression. He seems to have a stereotype of what Irish football is about, hence his preference for the players who epitomise that stereotype. When has he said that?

What I read after the Norway game was that against a team like Norway a more physical game was required but that you can play a latin style ame against latin style opposition. In any event, the first half in Norway (the second half was a farce) showed that we moved the ball well for practically the first time since 2002.

[irishultra]

Totally agree. And what really worries me is that Trap is almost conceding the point that we dont have enough quality (in his mind) to play our way into the World Cup so we must achieve results by "playing to our traditional strengths" of organisation and physical aggression. He seems to have a stereotype of what Irish football is about, hence his preference for the players who epitomise that stereotype. If he was managing Italy would he prefer Whelan to Reid? I suspect not. The tragedy is that we do have some very good technical players and could embrace a much more progressive style. We should have appointed a Dutch coach rather than someone who believes that we are a poor man's England. Of course I stand to look totally stupid if his approach pays off, but I honestly suspect it wont.

I don't think this is true. Many commented on the conviction of our passing in the Norway game.

Also eirebhoy pointed out before that Trapattoni dropped Pirlo in favour of Gatusso while manager of Italy.

[Stuttgart88]

why is Joey O'Brien not an option at DM in place of Whelan?

im sorry but im thinking Trap is pretty much getting his selections as wrong as Stan did. I think the organisation/experience he will bring will see us not getting embarrassed but we are not going to qualify for the world cup without all of our best players on the park for the majority of the games.Are you not contradicting yourself there? Whelan is a better user of the ball than O'Brien in my opinion. Picking O'Brien would be a more physical / less technical option, no?

[Kingdom]

When has he said that?

What I read after the Norway game was that against a team like Norway a more physical game was required but that you can play a latin style ame against latin style opposition. In any event, the first half in Norway (the second half was a farce) showed that we moved the ball well for practically the first time since 2002.

Thanks Stutts. I thought I was going mad for a moment. :D
This thread is starting to show the change in mentality of our fan. We starting to look no better than that shower across the water.
He hasn't even had 1 competitive game, he's undefeated as manager with a squad he barely knows. Give him a break. We lose on Sat and don't win on Weds, go mental. Hold fire till then lads.

[danonion]

Trap will play Given; Finnan, O'Shea, Dunne, Kilbane; McGeady, S. Reid, Whelan, Hunt; Doyle, Keane

A few things to note though.

1) Thus far McGeady has been a failure in the green shirt. the talent is there but how long can we wait for him to perform
2) McGeady is uncomfortable on the right for some reason, and Hunt is untested on the right
3) If we are going to displace Hunt to the right hand side to accomodate McGeady, I think i'd take the risk of dropping McGeady, playing Delaney at left full and letting Kilbane play on the left wing. Cue the chorus of Kilbanes a terrible winger, but so far McGeady has been rubbish. With Kilbane at least we have defensive awareness and physical presence in the midfield. If he is ineffectual he could be substituted for McGeady at half time.

[boovidge]

^I disagree. We need to use McGeady against these "weaker" teams especially without Duff. He could be the key to unlock a stubborn Georgian defence.

If we were playing Bulgaria I might agree with you as McGeady has been poor for us so far.

[irishultra]

Just thinking about it, Duff is a big loss for these matches, a real big loss.

[danonion]

^I disagree. We need to use McGeady against these "weaker" teams especially without Duff. He could be the key to unlock a stubborn Georgian defence.

If we were playing Bulgaria I might agree with you as McGeady has been poor for us so far.

You might be right, but Kilbane has come good as rabbit slayer for us in the past. San Marino, Faroes goals come to mind

[eirebhoy]

Personally I think Reid is good as an orthodox central midfielder (the best we have - he was superb in that role against Germany) or as an advanced playmaker. I'd have less confidence in a deep lying role where although his distribution and composure on the ball would be useful, you'd prefer someone better able to offer defensive protection.

I'd love to know what Trap would do with a guy like Paul Scholes. :)

[Irish_Praha]

Finnan/Kelly at left full? Joey O'Brien at centre half in one game, then centre mid in the next? Steven Reid on the right?
Can't see Trap making any one of these choices.

Or the Ireland & Kilbane CM partnership against Cyprus.

I agree that some of his squad and starting 11 selections are a bit odd and point towards him not fully appreciating the talent he has available. However, to suggest already that he was the wrong choice is a bit OTT.
From what I can see he has come in and taken over a side that has been poorly organised on the pitch. His number one aim appears at first to get the team organised and cut out silly mistakes/sloppy goals. He's thought of a system for doing this and, based on talent alone; certain players that would normally walk into the team don't exactly fit this system. The same could also be said for Charlton, who has still to be considered our most successful manager to date. I can understand Traps approach to these first two away matches as a poor start will have us playing catch up for the rest of the campaign.

If he makes us hard to beat and eliminates our sloppy play, resulting in us getting 4 or 6 points from these two games, it would be a great start.
On the evidence from the last two games I would say he has already improved or organisation a lot.

If we get two good results (or not) the next big question will be if he will continue to be conservative with his selection for the next squad/team or will he feel he has organised us a well as he can and then work on other areas of our play. He did himself say that he will approach each game differently. So he might be more offensive for the home games and include players like A. Reid, who will then have a chance to play themselves into contention for games like Italy away.

As I said before, I will give him the benefit of the doubt for these his first competitive games in charge because when he took over there was lots wrong with this team and he can only fix it one step at a time. However, he only has two years with us and should quickly learn what is needed to get us playing to the best of our ability. It will be interesting to see if he will be stubborn and stick to one system or is willing to develop the system to match the players we have available and become a bit more adventurous as soon as we have some points on the board.

[Wexford Delboy]

Just thinking about it, Duff is a big loss for these matches, a real big loss.

totally agree major loss

[SkStu]

look, this is how i see it.

we have a manger who is omitting one of our most talented players from the squad in favour of a limited Glenn Whelan. Reid is also behind Miller. Neither of these players can break into the first team for their clubs. Reid has been employed effectively in a number of positions (in the hole, on the wing, centre mid, defensive mid) at club and international level yet is behind the Whelan and Miller in the central positions and behind the rash Hunt and ineffective McGeady for the wing berths (edit: and also behind Andy Keogh, who cant get his game for a championship team and cant play on the wing). Questions can and should be asked about this decision if this is how it transpires. Charlton was questioned for omitting Brady and later O'Leary, the 2 supremely gifted footballers of their generation. What im saying is no different.

What follows from this is how O'Brien is not ahead of Whelan, Miller etc to partner Steven Reid in the middle. O'Brien is playing first team football in that position for Bolton, its his natuiral position but he is such a good footballer he could make a career for himself at RB or CB. Yet this guy, who is just as mobile as Whelan and better in other aspects, is not in contention for the DM position. It baffles me.

I think Trap is a good manager, i just question his view of the players at his disposal. I will gladly take it all back if he gets us to the WC or leads us to 2nd in the group as i think, overall, we dont have a particularly gifted squad. I, of course, hope to be proved wrong, its just my opinion...

[ken foree]

What follows from this is how O'Brien is not ahead of Whelan, Miller etc to partner Steven Reid in the middle. It baffles me.

it's easy to understand: whelan looks more like de rossi than o'brien! seriously though, i know only a very small amount about our apparently defensively-minded italian manager - is he the type to stick by one player no matter what his form/style etc? i hope trapatoni is flexible enough to realize a player's limitations and ruthless enough to drop him in favor of a better version. so i agree with you about whelan v. o'brien.

is this whelan mini-fixation a sign of the new man putting his stamp on the team? i fear so.

andy reid and j. o'brien are strong players in their own regard who should, by now, be up for a competitive int'l against georgia at a neutral venue... they are not individual world-beaters but could achieve a nice balance with the other reid supporting. in fact that central midfield triumverate is pretty choice, given our limitations:

--------a. reid----------
----o'brien-----s.reid----

amazing graphic, i know and undoubtedly others as yourself have suggested this combination.

also, as stated i can see trap's logic if he thinks andy reid too slow or vulnerable in certain areas. if given decent partners though, he can flourish and provide the right kind of service from open play and dead ball situations. if that type of partnership doesn't go well after 30-40 mins, then trap shouldn't be afraid to change it.

[dr_peepee]

Maybe trapp is ticking the box's for all the attributes of a good manager..

Loyalty (Whelan, Keogh). This breeds commitment, not just from the two mentioned but issues at statement of intent to other arguably more talented players of how their commitment will be rewarded. People question Whelans etc involvement over certain players but they have hardly let anyone down. The test of whether it's loyalty to a fault will be when they stop performing (see McCarthy)

Tactical Awareness... I think his formation is spot on for the players at our disposal, even if i don't agree with the personnel. (See Stan)

His own man. Not dictated by the fans or media. (See Sven in charge of England. Owen Hargreaves aside i think The Sun picked his teams)..

I dunno.. I'm just trying to find sense in some of his decisions cos he clearly is a good manager..