Setanta Cup expanded from next season

[DmanDmythDledge]

http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3484



Setanta Sports Cup to be expanded for 2009

The increasingly popular Setanta Sports Cup is to be expanded to nine teams for the 2009 season, with the competition comprising of three groups of three, it was announced on Tuesday.

The extra place will be given automatically to the reigning Setanta Sports Cup holders should they fail to qualify through the normal channels.

If the competition holders qualify through their league or cup placing, the extra place will be awarded to the winners of a play-off between a club from the eircom League of Ireland and one from the JJB Sports Premiership.

The announcement was made today by Milo Corcoran, Chairman of the Setanta Sports Cup Organising Committee, at the official re-launch of the 2008 competition on Tuesday.

The competition resumes next Monday after a four-month break, with the remaining group matches to be played before the competition moves into its knock-out phase.

Corcoran said that it is only fair for the tournament winners to be given the chance to defend their crown. He also welcomed the expansion of the Setanta Sports Cup to nine clubs.

Presumably the playoff position will be decided by league placing. Probably just mean an extra LOI club in the competition.

[HarpoJoyce]

http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3484


Presumably the playoff position will be decided by league placing. Probably just mean an extra LOI club in the competition.

Thanks for posting this. I came up with the presumption...well if Linfield FC continue to win or dominate the competition then there is an Irish League club presented as an extra/just representative of the Irish League. Perceived success. Normal. But that wouldn't stop 3 LoI and 1IL in the semi-finals.

(this post is not reflective of either league, but a reminder that sometimes there is a competetive nature between both).

[skitz3]

I think it's good to see it expand but it will bring down the standard of football in it.

[OneRedArmy]

I think it's good to see it expand but it will bring down the standard of football in it.By adding one team?

Do explain....

[skitz3]

I'll admit i didn't read the complete article and was still thinking of the 3 team groups from a couple years back so apologies (it's still too early).

[holidaysong]

How will 3 groups give us 4 semi-finalists? A best runner up? :confused:

[pineapple stu]

By adding one team?

Do explain....
I think it's the same way adding Linfield to the eL will make a fully-professional Premier sustainable.

[willymccann]

so, possible new life is being breathed into the competition, which in my opinion is a good thing, but what next for the Setanta Cup. As I believe it's set up to see if an All Ireland League could be possible.

So here's my 2 cents worth (well I'd be lucky to get 2 cents for any of my thoughts, but hey!)

IFA & FAI scrap the League Cup in both leagues
The Setanta Cup is expanded and rebranded to say "The Setanta All Ireland League Cup"
Prize money from the League Cups & Setanta Cup put into the prize pool
Hopefully Setanta would be willing to go with this plan and televise the Cup
The first few rounds are played regionally, or league based (this of course to be worked out by people more knowledgable than me - so anyone over the age of 12 could do it)
Once the competition hits the last 16 (or possibly 32) it opens out into the All Ireland League Cup
The IFA & FAI approach FIFA and ask for a UEFA Cup spot for the winners of the Setanta Cup, or work out something between them to give the winner a UEFA Cup spot
The final switches annually between Lansdowne Road and Windsor Park - of course if it's 2 LOI clunbs - Lansdowne would be more suitable, but you can see what I'm getting at
Between prize money and a possible UEFA Cup spot, this would be one hell of a Cup for any club in in IL or LOI to win


Of course, with the IL being a winter league, and LOI being a summer league, this might not be possible, or may require creative thinking for fixtures.

And of course, they'd be a lot more than just the above to work out, but I think it would be a good idea (well, otherwise I wouldn't have even typed up this post:D)

[Réiteoir]

We could use the model used for the Setanta Shield in England - which is the Cup Competition for those teams in the Conference (most of whom operate on similar financial levels as our lot)



The competition is a knockout tournament (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knockout_tournament) with pairings drawn at random - like the FA Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FA_Cup) there is a minimal form of seeding, in that members of the (higher-level) Conference National (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conference_National) enter together at a later stage in the tournament, and the draw for each round takes place after the completion of the round before.

Assuming the Conference is neither expanded nor diminished in future, there will thus be an annual entry of 68 teams into the tournament.

The first three rounds are contested solely between teams from the Conference's North (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conference_North) and South (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conference_South) divisions, however, until only 8 teams total from the two Divisions remain, at which point the teams of the Conference National will be entered.

Matches which produce no winner after 90 minutes continue into extra time and then progress to a penalty shoot-out (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penalty_shoot-out) akin to the style of the Football League Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_League_Cup), rather than scheduling replays as in the FA Cup.

The first round is scheduled for October, with the intention that teams are unlikely to find themselves contesting the Conference League Cup at the same time as they play in the FA Cup and to a lesser extent, the FA Trophy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FA_Trophy), thus reducing the workload of even the more successful teams.

As an added incentive to attract greater crowds and more interest and commitment, the Football Conference announced that it has arranged a deal with Setanta Sports (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setanta_Sports), the competition's sponsor, to provide live television coverage of the latter stages of the competition, thus generating much-needed revenue as well as interest from non-Conference sources.

So we could model it like this:

First three or so rounds are contested by the eircom League First Division and Irish League Championship clubs "in-house" (i.e. they only play teams from their own division) - come up with a system that leaves us with 10 clubs from the two divisions left.

Then the 22 eL Premier and IFA Premiership sides come in - added to the 10 left from the "qualifiers" - giving us 32 clubs left.

Then it's straight knockout or a similar model with no seeding or geographical constraints - ending up with one club taking the spoils

[Candystripe]

We could use the model used for the Setanta Shield in England - which is the Cup Competition for those teams in the Conference (most of whom operate on similar financial levels as our lot)



So we could model it like this:

First three or so rounds are contested by the eircom League First Division and Irish League Championship clubs "in-house" (i.e. they only play teams from their own division) - come up with a system that leaves us with 10 clubs from the two divisions left.

Then the 22 eL Premier and IFA Premiership sides come in - added to the 10 left from the "qualifiers" - giving us 32 clubs left.

Then it's straight knockout or a similar model with no seeding or geographical constraints - ending up with one club taking the spoils

That is a very well thought out plan.

This could actually work very well.

[Mr A]

Yeah, that plan makes a lot of sense, to be honest the 9 teams idea just seems a bit silly. I'd have been more inclined to expand it to 12 if they were going to expand it at all.

[Les Fluer]

The increasingly popular Setanta Sports Cup

Thats nonsense to start off with. Attendances have proven that it is decreasing in popularity if anything.

[Dodge]

Thats nonsense to start off with. Attendances have proven that it is decreasing in popularity if anything.

Doubtful the TV company behind the competition measures success in attendance figures...

[holidaysong]

Thats nonsense to start off with. Attendances have proven that it is decreasing in popularity if anything.

I agree - there definitely seems to be less interest in the competition than there was at the beginning (although I'm basing this on the two matches I've seen this season - Dungannon vs. Drogheda and St. Pat's vs. Linfield).

I don't think the groups do much for attendances either - There is generally always one crap IL team in the group that won't be a draw for home fans. The attendances among the IL sides have been especially poor for their home games. Even Linfield - Derry (which is the biggest possible tie in this competition) hasn't been packed!

I think a knockout element would boost attendances somewhat as you wouldn't get the boring non-event group fixtures that you do at the moment when one side is already through to the semi-final for example.. For that reason, I must say that I do like Réiteoir's idea!

[holidaysong]

Doubtful the TV company behind the competition measures success in attendance figures...

I've only seen two games this season but they have been very boring to watch..

Drogheda and St. Pat's easily defeated Dungannon and Linfield. There was just no competition there from the IL sides!

I can't see Setanta sticking around for much longer... When does their sponsorship run out on it?

[Dodge]

Well my understanding is that Setanta are happy with the ratings. And as long as that's the case, they'll stick around.

[Flexy]

Dodge when is the Derry Pats game in the Setanta cup being played. I think its on Monday 15th September but Pats play Hetha on the Thursday can you confirm this for us please

[pete]

Unless IL sides upgrade their facilities I think will only see live games from the Oval & Windsor in future. Cliftonville v Cork City was due to be live last night but Celtic Park (Donegal Celtic ground) was not up to standard.

[pineapple stu]

Haven't been paying attention to the Setanta Cup or the IL lately - why were Cliftonville playing in Donegal Celtic's ground?

[Dodge]

Dodge when is the Derry Pats game in the Setanta cup being played. I think its on Monday 15th September but Pats play Hetha on the Thursday can you confirm this for us please

We play Hertha on the Tuesday now. Absolutely no idea about the Derry game, I've asked the same question

Cliftonville playing there because Solitude is getting some renovations done. Looks like it'll be pretty decent too

[belfastred]

Unless IL sides upgrade their facilities I think will only see live games from the Oval & Windsor in future. Cliftonville v Cork City was due to be live last night but Celtic Park (Donegal Celtic ground) was not up to standard.

It's only a temporary measure.

In next season's competition we will be back at Solitude with a new stand , new facilities and new UEFA standard floodlights

[pineapple stu]

Cliftonville playing there because Solitude is getting some renovations done. Looks like it'll be pretty decent too
So basically Pete's moaning that the IL clubs should improve their facilities when that's exactly what they are doing?

[bennocelt]

Just curious......what are the attendances like for this competition? you know what with all the talk of an all Ireland league

[Candystripe]

Just curious......what are the attendances like for this competition? you know what with all the talk of an all Ireland league


I can only comment on the games we've been involved in.

Our home game V Pats this year we had over 3,000 and season tickets don't count. Everyone has to buy a ticket.

We brought 1,500 to Windsor and 1,200 to the Oval. Glentoran only had about 400 at that game and Linfield seemed to have slightly less than what we brought up there.


Guesstimate for tonights game would at least 3,000 in the Brandywell.......I hope!

[belfastred]

I can only comment on the games we've been involved in.

Our home game V Pats this year we had over 3,000 and season tickets don't count. Everyone has to buy a ticket.

We brought 1,500 to Windsor and 1,200 to the Oval. Glentoran only had about 400 at that game and Linfield seemed to have slightly less than what we brought up there.


Guesstimate for tonights game would at least 3,000 in the Brandywell.......I hope!

I think we've brought more on our travels than we have had at home!

However our two home games have been Dungannon Wwifts and Cork played at Donegal Celtic

[adamcarr]

Just curious......what are the attendances like for this competition? you know what with all the talk of an all Ireland league

We get about a quarter of the crowds that we would get for league games but that is because the draw for the group stages is rigged and we always play the same teams(Portadown, Dungannon and this season Cliftonville replaced Ports). In our first season we got a big crowd for the Ports game although now the Cork public are just bored. Linfield would draw a big crowd in Cork, maybe Glentoran too.

[EalingGreen]

Unless IL sides upgrade their facilities I think will only see live games from the Oval & Windsor in future. Cliftonville v Cork City was due to be live last night but Celtic Park (Donegal Celtic ground) was not up to standard.

IL grounds are (or soon will be) often better than you might think. Donegal C is a bit of an exception, since having only been founded in 1970, it is amongst the most recent clubs to attain senior status, and so hasn't yet had the resources or time to build a decent ground. Which effectively is why it failed to get into the IPL this this season - there were at least 10 grounds in NI which were better than Suffolk Road. (Btw, I suspect that C'ville only chose DC Park temporarily over other Belfast grounds - Windsor, Oval, Seaview - due to security/travel reasons etc for their fans)

And aside from WP and Oval, Glenavon's Mourneview Park is possibly the best ground of its size in Ireland, with Portadown due to match it, when they complete their present redevelopment. C'ville's Solitude looks as if it will be pretty good when finished, as well. Crusaders are sounding very confident of achieving their move to what will be the hugely impressive new ground which was unveiled last week.

Beyond that, Ballymena United's Showgrounds isn't too bad, either. And if Glentoran ever do leave the Oval, as mooted for several years now, it will surely only be for something modern and suited to 21st Century expectations.

Crues (first minute is gash and music throughout):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IR8VN1OX9-g
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7585663.stm

Ports
http://www.portadownfc.co.uk/Ground_Plans.htm

C'ville
http://www.cliftonvillefc.net/cage.html

[Flexy]

[quote=Dodge;1012088]We play Hertha on the Tuesday now. Absolutely no idea about the Derry game, I've asked the same question

Cheers Dodge

[SMorgan]

Thats nonsense to start off with. Attendances have proven that it is decreasing in popularity if anything.


Spot on.

The whole idea that the competition has been a success or popular is spin. Not only have the attendances been disappointing, but its clear that the clubs aren't taking it seriously and are playing weakened teams. IMO expanding the competition will only make things worse.

By all means continue with the competition, but don't pretend that its something its not.