So which clubs are in danger of not finishing the season?

[jebus]

Kinda lost track of who's actually in danger amidst all the rumours and doom merchants so let's see if I have this correct,

Cobh are in serious trouble because of a lack of cash and some members wanting to return to the MLS.

Cork have realised that following the Peter Ridsdale model of how to build a successful club probably wasn't the bets idea and are now in serious danger from extinction, and more worringly, Danny Drew

Sligo could be gone in a week

Who else is in proper danger?

[holidaysong]

Kildare has promised to pay their players by 13th September - not sure what is happening there...

[Red4Eva]

Sligo could be gone in a week


there isn't a hope in hell of that happening. we'll be here next week and next season

[Hibs4Ever]

there isn't a hope in hell of that happening. we'll be here next week and next season

Really? So all your financial problems are sorted?

[sligoman]

Really? So all your financial problems are sorted?No, just over-exaggerated by our management committee.

[jinxy lilywhite]

No, just over-exaggerated by our management committee.

So your management comittee is lying to the country especially the people of sligo in the perilous situation of your debts. So how much is it really? €70,000, €100,000, €110,000 and so on.
From what I've read of fund raising has only made €44,000 with 5 days left to raise the remainder. Unless you owe only €44,000 it's not looking good for you

[Mr A]

No, just over-exaggerated by our management committee.

That's a relief. It's always under-exaggerated problems that are the worst. :p

[brianw82]

there isn't a hope in hell of that happening. we'll be here next week and next season

Please tell us what the real situation is, then. If it was exaggerated (and I understand WHY this would have been done), what is the real figure the club needs?

[dublinred]

So your management comittee is lying to the country especially the people of sligo in the perilous situation of your debts. So how much is it really? €70,000, €100,000, €110,000 and so on.
From what I've read of fund raising has only made €44,000 with 5 days left to raise the remainder. Unless you owe only €44,000 it's not looking good for you

Total creditors are 130k some are more urgent(revenue) than others , I expect will end up with close to 100k from the fundraisers once all funds are remitted , we will never go out of senior football its just a case of what level we willl be operating at whcih depends on the playing budget.

[Sam_Heggy]

Ironic how a Limerick man could start this thread with, the peace of mind knowing they are one those few clubs in the country with no financial bother :p

Its probably easier to say which clubs have no financial bother:
Limerick 37, Sporting Fingal, Drogheda (although if the new development doesn't go ahead who knows), Pats, Bohs, UCD, Bray and Wexford. Maybe there are others but im not too sure.

[jinxy lilywhite]

Total creditors are 130k some are more urgent(revenue) than others , I expect will end up with close to 100k from the fundraisers once all funds are remitted , we will never go out of senior football its just a case of what level we willl be operating at whcih depends on the playing budget.

From what I hear/read (and I must admit on the grapevine) the majority of it is last years tax bill. The taxman won't hang around like any other creditor, he will go straight to the high court. These guys are ruthless and in the current economic climate they won't take any prisoners either

[jinxy lilywhite]

Ironic how a Limerick man could start this thread with, the peace of mind knowing they are one those few clubs in the country with no financial bother :p

Its probably easier to say which clubs have no financial bother:
Limerick 37, Sporting Fingal, Drogheda (although if the new development doesn't go ahead who knows), Pats, Bohs, UCD, Bray and Wexford. Maybe there are others but im not too sure.

Dundalk should be included in there. No financial worries this season. Looking at one of our best years. The board are looking to B/E

[gufct]

We arent out of the woods by any matter of means.Bohs have 2 big Court cases in the next Couple of months One which they will probably lose and will cost them in excess of €150 k plus costs.The second one the Albion case is much more serious should they lose it could see them folding with Debts of anything between €3m to €5m. Spending is totally out of control at Dalymount and the whole land swap,Stadium Construction and Sale could all collapse.

[DmanDmythDledge]

I read somewhere before that 13 clubs are operating at a profit this season. Don't know how true that is though.

[dublinred]

From what I hear/read (and I must admit on the grapevine) the majority of it is last years tax bill. The taxman won't hang around like any other creditor, he will go straight to the high court. These guys are ruthless and in the current economic climate they won't take any prisoners either

Thats the big bit that has to be paid by end of august.

[pineapple stu]

I read somewhere before that 13 clubs are operating at a profit this season. Don't know how true that is though.
The FAI said it, I think. It depends how much you believe management accounts. You can say anything in them.

Best might be to go through the clubs one by one? This is the current state of the rumours, not necessarily facts!! Feel free to post corrections or other info.

Athlone - Very quiet this year. Seem to be consolidating after allegedly paying players a grand a week last year.
Bohs - Court case on the 6th of October. If they lose it, they appear to be screwed. They seem to have already spent the money they're due to get, and if they stop getting it, they certainly have to cut back.
Bray - Not a peep out of them, though any time I see their accounts, they've lost another quarter of a million.
Cobh - E250k of debts, some trivial, some apparently not. Signed more players in the transfer window, leading to their treasurer resigning.
Cork - Examinership.
Derry - Going part-time from next year.
Drogheda - Ground problems continue. Must be question marks over their licence next year (but will probably be fudged again). Playing away from United Park and/or not qualifying for Europe would hurt them financially, but they're OK while Hoey et al keep pumping in a million a year plus. How much longer they can afford to keep doing what they're doing in the current climate is open to debate.
Dundalk - All quiet, it seems.
Finn Harps - Don't know; always seems to be some smell of crises and overspending up there?
Galway - Have cut back drastically on their squad. Even if the club's stabilised again, relegation looks a strong possibility, which would mean more cut backs.
Kildare - Players threatening strike action if they don't get paid. Recent accounts had shown them E70k in debt, but making a profit and reducing that fairly quickly.
Limerick 37 - All quiet.
Longford - Presumably large debts remain from the last few years. Doesn't look like they'll be getting out of the First Division any time soon. Hard to see how they can clear what debts they have?
Monaghan - Don't take anything in, but don't spend anything either.
St Pat's - All quiet for as long as Kelleher wants it to be. Can't be classified as secure though.
Shamrock Rovers - Still seem to be a good example of how to run a club.
Shels - Still drawing down the Tolka funds. Need to sell their ground to pay off their debts, but there's been no word of any movement on this. If they don't go up this year, they will be doing well to get promoted any time soon.
Sligo - I agree their crisis was over-exaggerated to get people to react better, but they have to cut back next year to survive, it seems.
Sporting Fingal - Another rich man's plaything. Crowds seem to be poor enough, and many clubs have shown before that their model won't work. Will only last as long as the money's being pumped into them. Again, that's slightly more shaky with the current economic state.
UCD - Quiet enough, I hope!
Waterford - Cut-backs already this year; public appeals, etc. Not looking too healthy down there.
Wexford Youths - Mick Wallace's baby, but I don't see how he can be putting that much in given that they've good crowds, amateur players and a strong youth set up (are people paying fees to join the youth teams?)

I'd have Cork and Bohs as the two most serious cases, with Kildare, Cobh, Sligo, Waterford and Galway after that. Hard to know what state Shels and Longford are in these days.

[forza rovers]

So your management comittee is lying to the country especially the people of sligo in the perilous situation of your debts. So how much is it really? €70,000, €100,000, €110,000 and so on.
From what I've read of fund raising has only made €44,000 with 5 days left to raise the remainder. Unless you owe only €44,000 it's not looking good for youyes its not needed till october

[Longfordian]

Longford - Presumably large debts remain from the last few years. Doesn't look like they'll be getting out of the First Division any time soon. Hard to see how they can clear what debts they have?


Slowly but surely. It's going to take a while but the Supporters Trust is making inroads and most creditors are happy enough to take regular payments. Most. All going well we shouldn't be all that far off breaking even this year.Probably a small loss though. We will need to bring in the money we've budgeted for though.

[Celdrog]

Drogheda - Ground problems continue. Must be question marks over their licence next year (but will probably be fudged again). Playing away from United Park and/or not qualifying for Europe would hurt them financially, but they're OK while Hoey et al keep pumping in a million a year plus. How much longer they can afford to keep doing what they're doing in the current climate is open to debate.
Would agree with most of that, however you statement that our licence is "fudged" is libellous.
Brave, or maybe stupid

[Aaron]

Alot of people seem to be confused as to our situation. We are not in bother. We are simply making cut-backs to the playing side of the club to secure the long-term future. That dosnt necessarily mean we are ****ed.

Also things could change depending on success this season. Should we win a few cups and qualify for Europe we may not have to make the cut-backs suggested, or maybe not as much.

[John83]

Would agree with most of that, however you statement that our licence is "fudged" is libellous.
Brave, or maybe stupid
It's well known your current ground isn't up to spec. The new stadium is at an advanced planning stage, but we've all seen enough crap not to count our stadia before they're built.

[higgins]

Shels this season are in a pretty good state.
We're capable of rowing our own boat now after using ground sale money last year to keep things going.
Talk of drawing down funds from the sale of Tolka is a bit misleading to be honest, that has happened but it's not what's keeping us going. It's a bit more complicated than just accepting bridging loans like what was happening.

What's coming in is going out basically.

We have a lot of debt 'parked' until the sale of Tolka goes through but if you were to take this years accounts as a stand alone year we're going to come in more or less even.

Costs are way way down.
Our team this year is even cheaper than last years team (crazy as it sounds!).

Getting rid of the debt through the sale of Tolka is all we need to do (simple really :) )

[Candystripe]

The FAI said it, I think. It depends how much you believe management accounts. You can say anything in them.

Best might be to go through the clubs one by one? This is the current state of the rumours, not necessarily facts!! Feel free to post corrections or other info.

Derry - Going part-time from next year.



We have players under full-time contacts and we will honour them.

We might be signing at least one more on a full-time contract for 3 yrs.

As was said above we are sticking to the 65% and are still well under it as our players are paid well under €1k a week.

But if it's even a half truth I'm hearing............Bohs could be in even worse shape than Cork.

It could be either Pats or Derry representing Ireland next season in the CL.

Wouldn't it be great if everyone lived with-in there means.

Then we would have an amazing brilliant league.

[bellavistaman]

were ok anyway lads

[Schumi]

We have a lot of debt 'parked' until the sale of Tolka goes through but if you were to take this years accounts as a stand alone year we're going to come in more or less even.
...
Getting rid of the debt through the sale of Tolka is all we need to do (simple really :) )Is Tolka likely to be sold? They guy buying it wanted to build there didn't he? Apart from the recession, wouldn't the flooding problems put a stop to that?

[Redzer]

From what I hear/read (and I must admit on the grapevine) the majority of it is last years tax bill. The taxman won't hang around like any other creditor, he will go straight to the high court. These guys are ruthless and in the current economic climate they won't take any prisoners either
The fact is we owed €110K to the taxman from last year. The final installment of approx €7.5K will be paid on 14th Sept. Which in itself is a great achivement.
We are a little behind on this years tax but at the minute it's not an issue.

[Mr A]

Finn Harps - Don't know; always seems to be some smell of crises and overspending up there?


We're certainly overspending and I would expect us to record a substantial loss at the end of this season. I don't think there's any chance we won't make the end of the season but certainly the decision to increase the budget has been a gamble that has not paid off. Unfortunately the majority of the extra money was spent on giving D1 players better contracts instead of signing better players the much of the responsibility for that lies with Paul Hegarty. That said, I think our board should have been a lot more ruthless in heading off financial pressure earlier.

[superfrank]

Bray - Not a peep out of them, though any time I see their accounts, they've lost another quarter of a million.
As long as we're not in debt, I'm happy if not slightly concerned about the inevitable cut-backs. :(

Alot of people seem to be confused as to our situation. We are not in bother. We are simply making cut-backs to the playing side of the club to secure the long-term future. That dosnt necessarily mean we are ****ed.
That's a great approach. Make the cut-backs now rather then when it's too late.

[Schumi]

Unfortunately the majority of the extra money was spent on giving D1 players better contracts instead of signing better playersThe league's problem in a nutshell.

[Knappagh Red]

Shamrock Rovers - Still seem to be a good example of how to run a club.


Considering their existance over the last 25 years I wouldn't think so

[Dodge]

The league's problem in a nutshell.

No its not. wages aren't the problem, lack of money coming in is ;) :p



Wouldn't it be great if everyone lived with-in there means.

Then we would have an amazing brilliant league
:D

We're secure for at least another 3/4 years. After that...

[Magicme]

Shamrock Rovers - Still seem to be a good example of how to run a club.


Considering their existance over the last 25 years I wouldn't think so


Yeah but the only consideration there should be is how they are being run now. That is the model to look at not the past.

[WoodquayBoy]

Galway - Have cut back drastically on their squad. Even if the club's stabilised again, relegation looks a strong possibility, which would mean more cut backs.
No matter what happens between now and end of season, be it staying up, winning cup, relegation, I believe we are going part-time next year. Even if we get a Kelleher or Hoey, the money will be put towards building a structure around the club - youth set up, community ties and what have you - rather than a team.
Oh, and from what I hear, Bohs could be in major major trouble if things don't go their way in the next 6 weeks.

[higgins]

Is Tolka likely to be sold?

It has been sold :eek:
It's gone...

Only a matter of time before we're out of there.

Unless you win euromillions and repay the loans given to us since 2004 and get the developers to sign back the ground ?? ;)

[holidaysong]

Where are Shels going to go now that Fingal have occupied Morton Stadium? Is there a plan B?

[A face]

Clubs really need to learn how to do things correctly. I wonder is it possible for the FAI to put together some sort or training course based on the case studies in the league, highlighting them as reasons why things should be done correctly.

I'm still fairly positive about the league to be honest. There is loads to do but no one ever said it would be easy.

[brianw82]

the decision to increase the budget has been a gamble that has not paid off.

Lots of clubs seem to have done this, and I don't understand why. AFAIK, Harps' gate receipts covered all expenses last year. How can they justify increasing their budget, when they knew they would probably be in a relegation battle, which wasn't going to attract bigger crowds.

[Magicme]

Lots of clubs seem to have done this, and I don't understand why. AFAIK, Harps' gate receipts covered all expenses last year. How can they justify increasing their budget, when they knew they would probably be in a relegation battle, which wasn't going to attract bigger crowds.

Actually a relegation battle would bring out more crowds than middle table security if history is to be believed!

[pineapple stu]

Would agree with most of that, however you statement that our licence is "fudged" is libellous.
Brave, or maybe stupid
Would you ever go and *&@!e (if you'll pardon my French). (a) I never said who fudged what, (b) I said these were the current rumours and (c) United Park clearly doesn't meet licencing, and the deadline for doing something tangible rather than drawing up plans has long passed (even Harps have at least put in the required seats) and Drogs have done nothing. United Park isn't good enough for a UEFA Licence, yet you have one. Quite simple.


Clubs really need to learn how to do things correctly. I wonder is it possible for the FAI to put together some sort or training course based on the case studies in the league, highlighting them as reasons why things should be done correctly.
In fairness, the clubs know what they're doing and don't care. A car crash Dublin City/Shels/Cork/Bohs workshop won't do anything; there'll still be idiots.


Getting rid of the debt through the sale of Tolka is all we need to do (simple really :) )
Well, that and get a new ground with zero cash.

[Buile Shuibhne]

Is Tolka likely to be sold? They guy buying it wanted to build there didn't he? Apart from the recession, wouldn't the flooding problems put a stop to that?


There's lots of new buildings going up along the Tolka / Richmond Rd.

The sites are excavated and 'tanked' against floods - and then built on.

[Buile Shuibhne]

Where are Shels going to go now that Fingal have occupied Morton Stadium? Is there a plan B?


The current plan is to move in/piggyback with an existing 'junior' club, using whatever money is left (original sale price less total drawn-down by that time) to upgrade the ground.

Obviously the sooner that happens the better.

Shels aren't saying yet whether they've identified a club or agreed a deal with one.

It was hoped to do such a deal with Home Farm in Whitehall last year through Dermot Keely's good connections there, but it was shot down by the HF committee at the last hurdle.


Don't know if the new owners/developers of Tolka are in any hurry to push us out in the current economic climate?

[pineapple stu]

It was hoped to do such a deal with Home Farm in Whitehall last year through Dermot Keely's good connections there, but it was shot down by the HF committee at the last hurdle.
That was two years ago, wasn't it? Has nothing happened since? Or was it Dublin City who proposed the exact same thing and were told where to go?

Is a junior club likely to be happy at effectively being taken over like that?

[Dodge]

Is a junior club likely to be happy at effectively being taken over like that?

HOw are they been taken over? They'd be getting their facilities upgraded for little outlay, and all at the loss of "exclusive" rights to the pitch between February and November.

Findinga suitable venue will be tough though

[Buile Shuibhne]

That was two years ago, wasn't it? Has nothing happened since? Or was it Dublin City who proposed the exact same thing and were told where to go?

Is a junior club likely to be happy at effectively being taken over like that?


It was last year - Dermot Keely wasn't working for Shels 2 years ago.

It was at a fairly advanced stage with architectural plans drawn up etc., but was shot down when those in HF against the proposal, resurected some old cmtee members and wheeled them out to vote it down.


What Dodge says - it would be a ground-sharing arrangement.

[pineapple stu]

HOw are they been taken over? They'd be getting their facilities upgraded for little outlay, and all at the loss of "exclusive" rights to the pitch between February and November.
Possibly, yeah. I think it was Home Farm's main stated reason for not letting Dublin City come in and do the same thing though (with the underlying current that HF really didn't like DC).

[Celdrog]

United Park isn't good enough for a UEFA Licence, yet you have oneThat's why we played in Dalymount in the UEFA cup and CL.
Read the licening criteria before telling me where to get off. We know all about our ground and the probable demise if the NRA don't bugger off shortly.
But to suggest our licence is fudged is all I'd expect from the UCD fan who never got over Doolin leaving.

[pineapple stu]

is all I'd expect from the UCD fan who never got over Doolin leaving.
Oh dear... :o

You need a certain quality ground to get a Premier Division licence. Drogheda don't have that ground. The exemption for having plans to have that ground has now passed. It's quite simple.

[John83]

Oh dear... :o

You need a certain quality ground to get a Premier Division licence. Drogheda don't have that ground. The exemption for having plans to have that ground has now passed. It's quite simple.
Witch!

[holidaysong]

Will the FAI continue to let Drogheda use their hopes for a new stadium as an excuse to allow them to play at United Park next season?

[John83]

Will the FAI continue to let Drogheda use their hopes for a new stadium as an excuse to allow them to play at United Park next season?
It's only a guess, but I'd say yes. Yes they will.