Do we want an all - Ireland team?

[TheRealRovers]

Originally posted by fromthenorthffs
All-Ireland can work, provided it gets a new flag
Why the Tricolour represents both sides

[belfastreb]

tricolour has been misused up here ..like UJ...stands for something else. Flags not important, and I think the green shirt would help most players get over the dire Irelands Call

[Duncan Gardner]

Lopez. As I have reminded you, in the last formal test of Northern Ireland electoral opinion in November 2003, those supporting the end of partition won 40.5% of the vote. Since, quite obviously, the proposed end of the NI international team would become a major party political issue, it should be obvious that opinion would divide on broadly the lines above. You'd need a hell of a lot of Prods to float into the Lansdowne camp, eh? It's not going to happen.

Davros. I don't normally patronise others' poor spelling, or errors where they "canne type". But in your case I'll make an exception. :)

Belfast Reb. No-one who wants to watch football in NI has been "disenfranchised". You can watch or support (or indeed, vote for) whoever you like. Be careful of exaggerated claims like that, else Lopez will accuse you of paranoia. :(

More seriously, and as someone who contributes to both foot.ie and OWC, your comments are unreasonable. If you think individuals are out of order, name them (I'm possibly the most frequent poster among on here). Or if you just don't like the site, I invite you to make contact with specific suggestions. Either way email me at w_mccomish@yahoo.com.

[belfastreb]

I dont want to dig up dirt put football in the north has been preserve of protestant working class. Belfast Celtic and Derry City etc....Ever meet the 'concerned' football residents of Dee Street when going to Oval. Used to go to the odd Glen/linfield game for the "spectacle" of The big two(!?) only to see fans knock bells out of one another yet Cliftonville fans were meet by riot squads if we cheered to loudly.Going to Windsor.. I know Protestants who refuse to take their kids to games there... Yes, things have improved and I admit there are genuine Northern Ireland supporters who mean well but.....

[belfastreb]

As far as OWC goes , I have been banned, i will admit to banter but never sectarianism,I like a joke but I am not an idiot. I was banned yet people who physically threatened me were allowed to stay on... serious double standards i think. On a football level one of the biggest injustices, i have ever wittnessed(and this is saying something, being an oppressed Celtic supporter) was the time Linfield lost to a free kick that should not have been given against FC Coppenhagen and robbed me of seeing AC Milian Van Basten and all in Belfast, it stiill hurts. I think as someone who loves the game its awfully bad luck to live in the worst place to watch quality football in Europe

[lopez]

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
Lopez. As I have reminded you, in the last formal test of Northern Ireland electoral opinion in November 2003, those supporting the end of partition won 40.5% of the vote. Since, quite obviously, the proposed end of the NI international team would become a major party political issue, it should be obvious that opinion would divide on broadly the lines above. You'd need a hell of a lot of Prods to float into the Lansdowne camp, eh? It's not going to happen.
The end of the Northern Ireland team would become a major party political issue? Hmmm? Looking on your own site (Inspector Knacker of Operation Ore said that I can look but not join and post messages like 'anyone for sweeties?' or 'would you like to see my puppies?') I see that someone has kindly put up the various opinions on a BBCNI programme called 'Let's Talk'. Four politicos (Barbie DeBrun(SF), Carmel Hanna (SDLP) Dermott Nesbitt(UUP) and Daniel O'Donaldson(Whatever takes his fancy this week)) offered their opinions with Dermott Nesbitt apparently saying 'a united team worked for the rugby so mabye (sic) it would for the football.' I've yet to watch the programme which is available on line (it's over an hour) so I can't judge what exactly he did say, but we can gather that it was hardly 'no surrender' stuff.

A lot of Prods into the Lansdowne camp? Like the lots of Prods that come down for the rugby matches. Tell me DG, do Ulster rugby clubs (I've yet to see one without the UJ outside it unlike my local one which doesn't feel the need to put one up) have difficulty getting rid of their international tickets? Because, if so, I think I'll join one to get some of these hard to find items. Derek Dougan is not a nationalist and if you read any of his books he is not a supporter of an all - Ireland state. Neither is this bloke Nesbitt, although today's Tribune has an article of a Coleraine councillor and former RUC policeman - cum - Seven Day Adventist preacher going Chucky ar la la, so anything is possible.

The issue of an all-Ireland football team is totally different than an all-Ireland state. Reasons are: It's sport; The governing body would be shared equally between both communities; the success of an all-Ireland team in other sports (Ireland European rugby champions in anything but name in 1983 and 1985 while losing out narrowly in 2001 and 2003) is an attractive feature; its acceptance in every other sport except athletics, particularly in sports with strong unionist participation like cricket and rugby (not just in shinner sports) also suggests that opposition would not be so strong among unionists. The BBC opinion poll was an effort to find out the feeling in NI in general. Perhaps it is time for a more sophisticated poll done by MORI or their rivals to see if just 40% would be in favour.

http://www.ourweecountry.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1498

http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/letstalk/

[IrelandUnited]

Duncan I admire the sense and reason of your posts on here. I am a southern FAI man myself but it seems on this site there is an element who define bigotry as":that which is not in the perceived interest of the FAI and its fans!"

Many in the GAA are "bigots" for wanting to choose their own tenants. Surely a right of any property owner.

Unionists are bigots for wanting no part in an Irish republic they do not vote for or in its football team they want nothing to do with.

As for referring to Norn Iron s beggars I have seen my association trawl england for grannies and a stadium to play in so say no more.

I actually have a bit of time for NI. I used to support you v England in the Home Internationals and hope you bounce back. if in future you want to join us then great as well.

[lopez]

Originally posted by IrelandUnited
Many in the GAA are "bigots" for wanting to choose their own tenants. Surely a right of any property owner.
Then don't coming asking the proposed tenents its turned down for money for home improvements. (Government grants funded by the tax payer, many if not most would like to see the money currently being spent and wasted on redeveloping Lansdowne Road employed in bolstering the Irish health service)

Originally posted by IrelandUnited
Unionists are bigots for wanting no part in an Irish republic they do not vote for or in its football team they want nothing to do with.
A fine example of free state education.

Originally posted by IrelandUnited
As for referring to Norn Iron s beggars...
Er its you that 'Norn Iron' call the beggars

Originally posted by IrelandUnited
...I have seen my association trawl england for grannies and a stadium to play in so say no more.
Trawling? What teach mor have you just been released from IU? Its simple. Irish citizenship can be obtained through one Irish granny and, what is known for us plastics trying to get our kids on our passports, a 'foreign birth certificate.' Granted someone with just one granny isn't necessarily Irish - in particular if he's been supporting England since he got into football - but that's the rules. The FAI doesn't trawl. In fact someone informs the FAI that so and so is interested in playing for Ireland because of his granny, and away you go. No kidnapping. No bribes. Just a mutual arrangement.

Same with the North. British passport entitles NI cap. What bugs me is the double standards by NI, Scotland, Wales, the Tans, their unfunny media, and now you, is that the FAI are 'begging' when they pick someone with one quarter or one eighth Irish blood (or indeed with 100% Irish blood but who happened to be born outside the 26C) but that it's perfectly sporting when the four British nations pick players with no British blood, let alone blood from any of the four 'nations' they plan to represent. Where in Britain was John Barnes granny from? Where in Britain was the granny of the nineteenth century English cricketer the Maharajah of Vizianagram, born?

Originally posted by IrelandUnited
I actually have a bit of time for NI. I used to support you v England in the Home Internationals and hope you bounce back. if in future you want to join us then great as well.
Good luck in beating the Tans, DG.

[Duncan Gardner]

Originally posted by lopez

The issue of an all-Ireland football team is totally different than an all-Ireland state. Reasons are: It's sport; The governing body would be shared equally between both communities; the success of an all-Ireland team in other sports (Ireland European rugby champions in anything but name in 1983 and 1985 while losing out narrowly in 2001 and 2003) is an attractive feature; its acceptance in every other sport except athletics, particularly in sports with strong unionist participation like cricket and rugby (not just in shinner sports) also suggests that opposition would not be so strong among unionists. The BBC opinion poll was an effort to find out the feeling in NI in general. Perhaps it is time for a more sophisticated poll done by MORI or their rivals to see if just 40% would be in favour.


It's sporting politics. Football is the most popular sport in Ireland and worldwide. Here as elsewhere it's closely linked to a wider sense of identity.

Since, quite obviously, you are trying to merge the NI team out of existence, its governing bosy wouldn't be "shared". You are hoping for a takeover, not a merger.

I look forward to a scientific study as you suggest.

PS to Davros and Belfast Reb. Actually for once you are being too generous to me. I barred Davros from OWC- three times- because you continue to post sectarian abuse here in a way that suggests you would inevitably also do so there. Cut that, and you can return. Reb- ditto, respect the house rules and you can return. If you want to raise anything else, contact me direct as I said. You may have noticed that OWC has been much more self-censoring this year ;)

PPS Ireland United. Thanks for the kind comments, but you need to carefully distinguish between your own opinion and where you accuse others of intolerance- at first reading it isn't clear.

Armada Verdeblanca! :)

[lopez]

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
It's sporting politics. Football is the most popular sport in Ireland and worldwide. Here as elsewhere it's closely linked to a wider sense of identity.
So you are admitting that NI is also a political choice, something that many will dismiss as the same when Northerners follow us and hence the demand that people 'play or support the 'country' you were born in'?

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
Since, quite obviously, you are trying to merge the NI team out of existence, its governing bosy wouldn't be "shared". You are hoping for a takeover, not a merger.
This would be the case indeed. While the Republic and the FAI (if both associations joined under a new banner or simply reunited under the IFA) would be no more, a reunited IFA might possibly move to Dublin - but then that's democracy. The shift in football means more players and clubs in the Republic than when the two associations split - and we would be left with 'Ireland' which would suit all nationalists and irredentists like myself. However there would be nothing to gain for the apolitical 26C football fan. Hence you MAY get a majority of NI public voting for it but MAY NOT get the 26C public voting for it.
Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
I look forward to a scientific study as you suggest.
So do I. BTW I'd be interested in your take on Mr Nesbitt. Hope you are just too busy and not avoiding answering what was clearly an ambiguous declaration that this Unionist MLA/MP would not stand in the way of a 32C team.

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
...You may have noticed that OWC has been much more self-censoring this year.
It certainly has become more censored to the point that while it was at the top of my 'history' it has moved down a bit due to it discussing more football matters and less on what the 'beggars' are up to. Still I liked that internal tiff between the 'believers' and the 'non-believers' over matters of dogma (like el perrito loco, I am a believer). Nice to see my old mate research boy showing that one doesn't have to believe in the big man upstairs to be a bigoted a*rsehole.:p

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
Armada Verdeblanca! :)
To it being 32 county.;)

[belfastreb]

What got me barred was posting after norn iron got beat however it's ok to celebrate when the 'beggars' get beat? You will find that the vast majority of nationalists (just like those on other side of border)dont really want norn iron to get beat, however they respond in kind like me. If you want real debate on that site about how to change things it should be less censored , as it is it is often boring, even some of your posters admitted that i shacked things up a bit , going back about 2-3 years here I think. As it is it seems at moment to be a pro DUP site more than anything else. Celebrating the likes of Jeffery Donaldson who is nothing but a sad wee failed bigot(Sorry thats the last and only time I will mention politics)

[IrelandUnited]

Originally posted by belfastreb
What got me barred was posting after norn iron got beat however it's ok to celebrate when the 'beggars' get beat? You will find that the vast majority of nationalists (just like those on other side of border)dont really want norn iron to get beat, however they respond in kind like me. If you want real debate on that site about how to change things it should be less censored , as it is it is often boring, even some of your posters admitted that i shacked things up a bit , going back about 2-3 years here I think. As it is it seems at moment to be a pro DUP site more than anything else. Celebrating the likes of Jeffery Donaldson who is nothing but a sad wee failed bigot(Sorry thats the last and only time I will mention politics)

Belfastreb it is not so much that southerners want to see NI win or lose. The truth is that most southerners do not really care at all.

Most southern "nationalists" do not want a United Ireland and would run a mile from it. that is one of the hundreds of truths you are not supposed to tell about Irish society. Southerners look on NI with a mix of fear and suspicion and actually feel closer to the english.

Do not expect many to openly agree with me on this but at the same time it would pay to realise I am right.

[Duncan Gardner]

Lopez. My attitude to international football supporting is straightforward, and oft-repeated here. I'm relaxed about anyone supporting whoever they like, regardless of birth/ location. Provided they don't indulge in abuse or bigotry, or frighten the horses etc., again I don't mind if some make that choice for 'political' reasons.

However, unlike Dermot Nesbitt I am less relaxed about that choice being removed from me. Were that a realistic possibility, I think you'd find that even I would be more representative of broad unionist opinion than him ;)

As for OWC, the religion/ science row certainly doesn't suggest the site is intolerant of differing shades of opinion. And you seem a little confused in your attitude to the zoologist John B----. Why, only the other day he was a "worthy opponent"?

Belfast Reb. We already have debate on OWC, and you are welcome to rejoin it. I/We will continue to delete personal abuse and libels (and to ask users to avoid provocative sectarian comments etc.). This is because we think a broad right to free speech is limited by a corresponding entitlement to privacy. That is, not to be routinely called a "mutant" who should "feck off or integrate" [sic, and see below].

I'm interested you think OWC is now pro-DUP. While Donaldson has been credited for his support for both the NI team and a new stadium in his constituency, his new party leader has attracted both criticism and ridicule recently. As have fringe unionist politicians including Norman Boyd and Billy Hutchinson. You might as well say foot.ie supports Fianna Fail giving grudging backing to O'Donoghue's and Ahern's plans for Lansdowne.

Davros. Suggest you return to the thread below for a brief illustration of why you are banned from the OWC site. But, like I said, it doesn't have to be forever. You know, even those bigots in the Alliance Party are prepared to allow argument every so often. Come in and integrate!

http://www.foot.ie/t11667.htm

[lopez]

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
As for OWC, the religion/ science row certainly doesn't suggest the site is intolerant of differing shades of opinion. And you seem a little confused in your attitude to the zoologist John B----. Why, only the other day he was a "worthy opponent"?
Oh DG! There was me paying you a compliment and you just couldn't see the wood for the trees. Intolerance is too often associated with religion but it is equally prevalent within atheists - prime example is that wonderful product of the nineteenth century Russian autocracy, the Soviet Union. I've no time for Mormon's and Jehovah's Witnesses knocking on my doors but I think their efforts are far more sincere than double glazing salesmen, and a lengthy spell in the gulag is not the answer to their unsolicited salesmanship or as was the case in free and secular France, for refusing to be conscripted. John B called me a bigot for daring to question a few things (dare say I am) so I'm calling him a bigot for imposing his own 'rational' theory in language that only a moron could not see offends, on the origins of man which is about as baseless as the book of Genesis, but sounds a bit more 'logical' for the ignorant masses.

As for OWC, I can take anyone's comments as their own and not a website. What I can't take as evidence of a moderate site are libellous and inflammatory articles within the main body, but I'm beginning to sound like a stuck record, so I will move on. As for ok2boo, well what can be said about a site that aims to bring in the poisonous side of the old firm to Ireland games. Even I have to agree that the photo offered as evidence of Rangers far right links (and there are many if you read the comments from impartial Asian 'gers supporters in last month's 442) is pretty pathetic. The blokes do look like they are waving to mates. Should see me on the front of a train: You'd definitely think I was a fan of fat Frank.

[Duncan Gardner]

Before you move on, please send me (ie, a moderator) details of abuse, libels and inflammatory content. OWC makes clear the first two are not allowed. Threads are constantly monitored by your friendly Stalinist. Saying nice things about me notwithstanding.

As I mentioned, I asked Da Hamster (sp?) to delete all that stuff in your exchange with JB. He met me halfway and locked it. I just hope neither of your wives ever reads these pages ;)

[Duncan Gardner]

Davros. The house rules on OWC appear under the site owner's name. He is bound by them just like, me, you, and all other contributors.

If you, or anyone else, wishes to report any breach of them, you already have the invitation to contact me direct. You clearly don't agree with the way I have applied them, but will accept that the number of posts being edited or deleted has recently risen sharply.

As I have made clear there, anyone wishing to accuse another of bigotry, dishonesty or similar needs to provide supporting evidence. Otherwise they will be asked to withdraw, or have it deleted. Essentially it's 'put up or shut up'.

Since you asked, terms such as 'planter' or 'puppet state' are not banned there per se. But, since they will be offensive to a large majority of readers, our judgement is that contributors are expected and where necessary asked directly, not to use them. (The same broadly applies to the equivalents used by OWC regulars, though not me, here on foot.ie). You have used them and worse as I indicated above, and you have tried on at least three separate occasions in the last month to register different aliases on OWC. It seems likely to me that you intend to use them there. But, as I keep saying, you can rejoin if you respect the rules. That they are slightly different and probably at the moment more rigid than those here, does not make them any less valid.

You may treat this post as on behalf of OWC as a whole. No pun nor hononym intended.

If you mean that your documented instances of abuse etc. are a "joke", it's both unfunny and repetitive. Whereas if you mean that you don't believe my assurances above, I refer you to the evidence. Which, as you know and as on foot.ie, you can still read without being registered.

Any reference you make to my past activity couldn't possibly embarrass any more than the damage your ill-considered contributions are doing to this forum.

[MickF]

Originally posted by davros

Finally if you put 'Our wee bigots'into Google/Yahoo search engines,guess who it comes up with.......I rest my case!T.A.L.!

A post of mine on OWC about ok2boo was deleted criticising both old firm clubs. I also asked why there is a Serbian Rangers Supporters Club. Nothing of course to to with the fact that the Orthodox Serbs hate the Catholic Croats. A certain Marty, an administrator on the forum is a VIP according to this link.
www.serbianloyalrsc.com

[Duncan Gardner]

Mick- do you still have copy of the detail? You can send it to me privately with the assurance I won't pass it on, if you like.

Did you not suggest that your deleted post might be "slanderous" (libelous, actually) and that if so you apologised for it?

As you suggest, Serbs and Croats are broadly though not exclusively identified with the Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches respectively. This may well be a factor in the formation of a Serbian Rangers SC. Though not the only one, as a moment or two on google suggests. Fancy that, there's a Serbian Celtic SC as well

I know the VIP you mention is flattered as well as irritated by that link. But essentially all it's telling us is 'Northern Ireland football fan supports Rangers'. Hardly a story, is it?

[Duncan Gardner]

Tell you what son, give up your internet access and we can start debating a more realistic figure- say €50,000? :)

This thread in a nutshell:

Most people (RoI fans): either no (why the hassle?), or acceptable in principle but unlikely in the forseeable future.

NI fans: no (both because of the hassle) and we're anti in principle.

Lopez: although unlikely in the foreseeable future, I'll keep suggesting to tease NI fans.

Davros: all Ulster unionists/ NI fans are hypocritical, paranoid bigots by definition and thus I can post whatever nonsense I like. Did I mention my adoptive father was an Anglican clergyman and that I lived in Ireland until I was eight?

Sorry if I've missed anyone.

Flounces off to swim and thence pub

[MickF]

Libel is defamation of character in print. And there was nothing libelous in my post. I don't have a copy of the deleted post.

It seem's to be alright to accuse ok2boo of being a bigot because he's a Celtic fan but you can't criticise Rangers on the OWC forum. Even a post that criticises both Old Firm clubs gets deleted.

Yes there is a Serbian Celtic supporters club but there's also a Croatian Celtic supporters club if you look up Google. The anti-Fascist elements that follow Celtic are ashamed of these links and this could be a factor in the establishment of a Celtic supporters club in Serbia.

Marty is a Rangers fan and there's nothing wrong with that. But it seem's he's just as guilty of equating support of Rangers with Northern Ireland as ok2boo is of believing that support for Celtic and Republic of Ireland is the same thing.

[Duncan Gardner]

I criticise Rangers FC on OWC, here, and elsewhere. None of this has ever been deleted. I should have a look at that big yellow thing in the sky, maybe :)

Ok2boo is accused of bigotry because he represents a lobby encouraging abuse of others simply on the basis of the most tenuous assocaition with Rangers FC.

Given the absence of the relevant detail I'm withdrawing. Also, I'm knackered!

[MickF]

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
I criticise Rangers FC on OWC, here, and elsewhere. I should have a look at that big yellow thing in the sky :)

Yes you might but you can't accuse Rangers of bigotry on OWC. I wouldn't mind but I even named some of the Catholics who played for Rangers before Mo Johnston discrediting the myth that no Catholics played for Rangers before 1989.

Maybe it was because I had to say that Celtic and Rangers are two sides of the same coin. I suppose Rangers supporting Marty couldn't get his head around that.

[MickF]

Originally posted by lopez

As for ok2boo, well what can be said about a site that aims to bring in the poisonous side of the old firm to Ireland games. Even I have to agree that the photo offered as evidence of Rangers far right links (and there are many if you read the comments from impartial Asian 'gers supporters in last month's 442) is pretty pathetic. The blokes do look like they are waving to mates. Should see me on the front of a train: You'd definitely think I was a fan of fat Frank.

Rangers even have a supporters club in mainly Catholic Vienna. Oh, and Vienna also happens to be the capital of the country where Hitler was born.

See the following
www.beeworld.de/members34/viennatrueblues

Click on the Vienna True Blues link. In the first photograph you can clearly see the chap on the extreme left giving a Nazi salute. I'm no apologist for ok2boo and I think the Old Firm rivalry has nothing to with the Irish national side but it does look like those Rangers fans were giving Nazi salutes.

Although they could be waving to mates like you said. viennatrueblues.beep.de/

[Duncan Gardner]

Mick. I'm sorry, you are simply wrong. Your post was deleted because it was felt, perhaps inaccurately, to be defamatory. (Technical point- if it had been, then that would be a libel, not a slander, as these forums are considered print media).

Not because you criticised Rangers. I and a few others criticise both halves of the Old Firm regularly (look through the index under my user names), and I've hardly been banned eh?

Davros. You use your family/ faith background and childhood residence as a spurious justification for posting repeated abuse here. It's thus perfectly valid for me to mention and criticise this.

This tread has become completely self-referential and so I think the moderators should lock it up?

[lopez]

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
Before you move on, please send me (ie, a moderator) details of abuse, libels and inflammatory content. OWC makes clear the first two are not allowed. Threads are constantly monitored by your friendly Stalinist. Saying nice things about me notwithstanding.
The article put on the OWC website mentioned on 'It beggars belief' and in the Sunday Life. Particularly about Irish fans being thieves.

As for contributors, this is not the responsibility of OWC but it gives an insight to the wee minds of a minority who post on it. Like Davros, these messages make me laugh rather than offend. Examples are:

Regrading Northern players opting for the Republic: 'Dirty Poaching Beggar scum'...'That is nothing short of a ****ing disgrace, how low will the FAI stoop. What next, approach our young players in the tunnel as they prepare to play for NI?'... 'Anyway the player hasn't yet agreed to become a mercenary, so there's every chance he'll turn them down...'

Regarding the Republic's English born players: 'After they undeservedly reached the quarter-finals in 1990, this is just deserts for them. They can't complain.Next time your Republic of Ireland, glory hunting, plastic paddy reminds you how well they are doing at the world cup, for such a small nation; remind them: Out of a squad of 22, only 11 of them were actually born in Ireland!!'... 'Most of the ROI squad are English and when their football careers are finished will be back to British passports.'

Regarding Republic's fans: 'What makes ROI fans "the best in the world"? Attacking school buses in Strabane? Booing Rangers players? Irrational hatred of England? Shouting "Up the Ra" at the camera?'...'Why didn't he tell the truth? They f**king hate the English! (unless they're playing for the Beggars). Suppose that wouldn't fit in with the loveable harmless Irish image though, would it..'...'Arse, arse, arse. One small nation and a billion wannabe plackoid hangers on, smug as hell. It would make you want to spit.'

Regarding Celtic supporters: 'Good opportunity for burglers then in Glasgow on the 21st!!' REPLY: 'No, they'll all be in Seville......'

Regarding the 1995 England match: 'irish fans singing ooh ahh up the ra may have had something to do with the violence that followed. I'm no fan of the english, but I am sick of hearing about how great and friendly the republics fans are. They are not, they have their own hoolie element, and anyone who supports the ra deserves to have their stadium ripped to shreds'...'to that **** who said I was talking s**t about what really went on at Lansdown Road - an element of the Republics 'fans' sang pro Republican songs before the violence started. I do not have any great love for the English, but I am stating this as fact. So stop ****in defending the pro-IRA scum element.'

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
Davros: all Ulster unionists/ NI fans are hypocritical, paranoid bigots by definition and thus I can post whatever nonsense I like. Did I mention my adoptive father was an Anglican clergyman and that I lived in Ireland until I was eight?
Was there really any need for mentioning someone was adopted? Pathetic as it gets really.

Originally posted by MickF
Rangers even have a supporters club in mainly Catholic Vienna. Oh, and Vienna also happens to be the capital of the country where Hitler was born.

Click on the Vienna True Blues link. In the first photograph you can clearly see the chap on the extreme left giving a Nazi salute. I'm no apologist for ok2boo and I think the Old Firm rivalry has nothing to with the Irish national side but it does look like those Rangers fans were giving Nazi salutes.

Although they could be waving to mates like you said.
You're having a laugh. The bloke on the left looks more like Winston Churchill giving the V for victory sign and another is waving. There's even a chinaman there. Mind you German Shepherd - very suspect.

There are plenty of far - right links with Rangers but even I have to admit there's no evidence that Army Groupie is intentionally linked to them.

[Duncan Gardner]

I'm quite happy to withdraw the word 'adopted' from my previous post, Lopez. Actually it has no relevance to the point (which is that Davros uses his own background irrelevantly to justify his repetitive ramblings on here, not a value judgement on that background).

And we can't having anyone matching me as a sanctimonious prig, can we? That really would be pathetic :)

[lopez]

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
I'm quite happy to withdraw the word 'adopted' from my previous post, Lopez. Actually it has no relevance to the point (which is that Davros uses his own background irrelevantly to justify his repetitive ramblings on here, not a value judgement on that background).

And we can't having anyone matching me as a sanctimonious prig, can we? That really would be pathetic :)
DG. Davros, knowing him personally, is not the least bit backward about his own biological - if I may use that - history. To me, as coming from a family full of people born outside that capitalist institution called marriage (it's about as priceless or worthless as you make it), it is refreshing, especially as we're talking Sisters of Magdalene era here and not council flat on da nortsoide foor a beybeee era. Seeing our own differing views on the subject, I can't fathom you bringing that up. It truly is the resort of someone that seems to have lost the argument. Dav's insistence on bringing up his religion - even though he admits he is an atheist - seems to be threefold. One to prove that his rantings are not disfigured by religious prejudice. Two, that he has some insight into the unionist mind. And three, that it gives him carte blanche to go where papists like me would never go in what is racial abuse.

As for all this 'a sanctimonious prig' business, I think you need to just double read your posts. Despite what you may think, this isn't the Alamo. And please stop going to the moderator to close threads. I had to rush that one out this morning, which you haven't sent in your two cents yet. :mad:

BTW. Saw your mate Howard on TV last night. I don't know who had a bigger nose for lies. Him or Bliar (sic.).

[Duncan Gardner]

I am content to allow Lopez and Davros the last public word on this. I've sent my reply to them personally.

[the 12 th man]

a tumbleweed blows down the main street as the men mount
their horses and leave town.the sheriff is mighty relieved that calm has decended again on his quiet little town.they were tough hombres,will they ever return,who knows??,but for now its on with the daily grind.

[lopez]

Originally posted by the 12 th man
a tumbleweed blows down the main street as the men mount
their horses and leave town.the sheriff is mighty relieved that calm has decended again on his quiet little town.they were tough hombres,will they ever return,who knows??,but for now its on with the daily grind.
:D :D :D :D