Norway V Republic of Ireland - Wednesday, 20th August 2008 - Friendly

[beepbeep]

Hope I dont upset anyone here but this question is legit -

Would it be fair to say that Robbie Keane doesn't do partnerships at international and as a result his own goal rate is so high but Irelands success has suffered as a result?


eh?:confused:
yea he plays with berbatov and torres on a weekly basis, but then shuts down when it comes to representing his country as captain with kevin doyle!:rolleyes:

[beepbeep]

dont think kilbane is to blame for the goal. it was kiely's fault. the ball came to quickly at kilbane for him to react it seemed.

always expect the unexpected.......ah no, i agree 100%, he wasnt to blame.

[Uncle_Joe]

brief highlights here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KpznInpkGo

[NeilMcD]

Hope I dont upset anyone here but this question is legit -

Would it be fair to say that Robbie Keane doesn't do partnerships at international and as a result his own goal rate is so high but Irelands success has suffered as a result?

I love it. So before Keane was given out to for not getting goals and then he gets a few he is now at fault for other people not getting goals.

Can we get one thing straight, if there is a problem in the Irish team it is not with Robbie Keane.

[Duggie]

without robbie keane were screwed

[ken foree]

brief highlights here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KpznInpkGo

cheers

[Junior]

. There is certainly a view out there amongst the more rural fans .....

hahah just spit it out Neil...

[NeilMcD]

Spit what out.

[Junior]

Never mind.

[irishultra]

Anyone see Sky Sports talking about the Irish team?

[OwlsFan]

Anyone see Sky Sports talking about the Irish team?

No, and who cares what they, Giles or any other pundit says? Make your own mind up.

I have no doubt that Kilbane is being played primarily for his height in what is otherwise a smallish team.

Main positives from last night:

(a) S. Reid.
(b) We didn't get beaten
(c) Played some very nice football in 1st half (2nd a lottery - forget it).
(d) Duff and Given back and playing well.

Negatives

None really. Whelan and McGeady played pretty much as I thought they would. Not terribily effective. O'Shea did ok apart from one near catastrophe. Doyle needs a goal or two at any level.

Onwards and upwards.

[Calcio Jack]

No, and who cares what they, Giles or any other pundit says? Make your own mind up.

I have no doubt that Kilbane is being played primarily for his height in what is otherwise a smallish team.

Main positives from last night:

(a) S. Reid.
(b) We didn't get beaten
(c) Played some very nice football in 1st half (2nd a lottery - forget it).
(d) Duff and Given back and playing well.

Negatives

None really. Whelan and McGeady played pretty much as I thought they would. Not terribily effective. O'Shea did ok apart from one near catastrophe. Doyle needs a goal or two at any level.

Onwards and upwards.

Who cares what you say I'll make up my own mind:rolleyes:

[carloz]

Glen Whelan - 4 - Passanger, when the midfield gave the ball away 90% of the time it was him. When he was on the ball all he did was safe options of linking up play. He'll never be behind any good play and seemed to accept that and was doing his best to merely hold on his own
Thinks thats a stupid mark to give Whealan. I thought he played very well, particularly in the second half in the horrible conditions. He goes through a lo of the donkey work that often never gets appreciated. I was very impressed with his partnership with Reid and think it has good potential for the future. Plus it adds much needed bite to our midfield

[Wheels]

brief highlights here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KpznInpkGo

Thanks Joe. Interesting to see it all from the opposite side of the pitch.

So that was the highlights that the Italians saw? I like the way they cut out almost ALL of the Irish play... none of our good passing was shown. That just means they'll be all the more surprised when we play them off the park :)

[Kingdom]

Thinks thats a stupid mark to give Whealan. I thought he played very well, particularly in the second half in the horrible conditions. He goes through a lo of the donkey work that often never gets appreciated. I was very impressed with his partnership with Reid and think it has good potential for the future. Plus it adds much needed bite to our midfield

what I noticed about Glenn last night was the amount of one touch passes he gave during the spell of about 30 mins where we absolutely dominated play in the first half. Someone referred to him doing a "Carsley with hair!" job last night. Not at all. He constantly switched play in an instant. He probed the full backs and was always available for the pass. He'd a good game and in my mind I believe he has guarenteed himself a start against Georgia.

[Kingdom]

No, and who cares what they, Giles or any other pundit says? Make your own mind up.

I have no doubt that Kilbane is being played primarily for his height in what is otherwise a smallish team.

Main positives from last night:

(a) S. Reid.
(b) We didn't get beaten
(c) Played some very nice football in 1st half (2nd a lottery - forget it).
(d) Duff and Given back and playing well.

Negatives

None really. Whelan and McGeady played pretty much as I thought they would. Not terribily effective. O'Shea did ok apart from one near catastrophe. Doyle needs a goal or two at any level.

Onwards and upwards.


Owlsfan some good points there. i think delaney is just as tall as Killer, and in mind a better option as full back.

[NeilMcD]

Delaney is the tallest player in the squad as far as I can see. I have a very good team photo that I took against Coloumbia and there was nobody taller than him there.

[shakermaker1982]

what I noticed about Glenn last night was the amount of one touch passes he gave during the spell of about 30 mins where we absolutely dominated play in the first half. Someone referred to him doing a "Carsley with hair!" job last night. Not at all. He constantly switched play in an instant. He probed the full backs and was always available for the pass. He'd a good game and in my mind I believe he has guarenteed himself a start against Georgia.

He didn't do anything but pass the ball backwards or sideways in the first half. One touch passing back to Dunne is not going to achieve anything. Norway didn't even press us last night in our own half so no wonder our defence passed the ball around with a little more confidence. Second half he got stuck in and played ok but he didn't impress me that much in the first half.

[Noelys Guitar]

This might be stating the obvious but we have to stop Georgia and Montenegro from scoring in the next two games. Offer them nothing. The way we played for the last 30 mins of the first half suggests we can now do that. If we can cut out the O'Shea/Kiely/Kilbane type blunders from last night then we will win our next 3 games. I fancy Keane to score in every game now for Ireland. Given won't make a mistake like Kiely's last night. I would consider playing Delaney instead of Kilbane (Delaney better distribution). And I would take O'Shea to one side and tell him to get a grip and play to his potential.

[Wolfie]

. And I would take O'Shea to one side and tell him to get a grip and play to his potential.

Unfortunately, it may take more than a pep talk to get O'Shea up to International Standard.

[NeilMcD]

Whelan is a better option that Miller. You are right in that he is conservative, but it is his 2nd game for Ireland, many players say it takes up to 15 games to get to grips with international football and esp for a young footballer in the defensive midfield role, if he can break up attacks and keep possession I would be happy.

[Wolfie]

Whelan was trash again last night. He seemed adamant to not give away possession (even though he still did more than any other player) but the general flow of the 1st half last night was that Reid would cut the team open with a pass to McGeady or Duff who'd skillfully bring the ball forward, play Keane or Doyle who play it back all the time probing for an opening, then Whelan would appear in space, they'd give it to him and he'd take some safe useless option like passing back to the defence breaking down our attack. We need somebody with courage in that role, Andy Reid ideally but if I HAD to I'd take Miller if Whelan is the only alternative. Georgia will have every reason to be thrilled if we start Whelan.

The whole point of Whelans inclusion is to retain possession and protect the back 4 - particularly away from home, when its envisaged we'll be under pressure. Its undoubtedly a conservative approach but something we could be seeing a lot of - hopefully which results in a dramatically impoved away record.

[OwlsFan]

Whelan was trash again last night.

I wouldn't call his performance "thrash". I obviously saw a lot of Whelan when he played for Wednesday (let go by Man City). For every good 3 good passes, he'll give away 1 or two rather sloppily. He's not a bad player and he's definitely a good Championship player but he's NOT the solution to our midfield problem. He'll do a fair job but I am not sure that's enough at the level we're looking at. Perhaps Trap can bring more out of him which would be great.


Delaney is the tallest player in the squad as far as I can see. I have a very good team photo that I took against Coloumbia and there was nobody taller than him there.

Perhaps I should have said: good in the air rather than for his height. Kilbane competes well in the air (he even set up the Norwegian goal from a set piece ;)). I haven't seen enough of Delaney to ascertain whether he's good in the air. Is he?

[Duggie]

i dont see why he cant play steven reid as the defensive midfielder with andy reid getting forward. makes sense to me.

[irishultra]

They were saying good things on Sky Sports for the record. 'Ireland's European(:rolleyes:) stye play couldn't cope with the conditions'

Whelan was nice to watch last night, definetly looks better on the ball than Carsley. Ciaran is being unfair on him. He didn't lose the ball that much, I'd say over 80% of his passes were accurate...definetly.

He compliments S.Reid well. Andy Reid is interesting though. I wish we had one more friendly to try him behind Keane. I liked Doye last night but he doesn't seem hungary enough to score.

[DotTV]

I think Trap hinted in his interviews that he wants a more defensively solid midfield away from home and gainst the better teams at home, but we'd use more attacking options against the lesser teams at home.
If three of your midfield are Duff, McGeady and A Reid, that doesn't give a lot of cover at the back.

[soccerc]

I obviously saw a lot of Whelan when he played for Wednesday (let go by Man City).

He was no let go by Man City, he refused the offer of a new contract.


As I posted yesterday, he has been mandated a particular role by the management and has impressed in his application to those instructions. (I am of course biased)

This is a team being built,a group who will work for and with each other, not a bunch of outstanding individuals.

[Kingdom]

He was no let go by Man City, he refused the offer of a new contract.


As I posted yesterday, he has been mandated a particular role by the management and has impressed in his application to those instructions. (I am of course biased)

This is a team being built,a group who will work for and with each other, not a bunch of outstanding individuals.

What does he think of the setup soccerc? There seems to be a fair bit of harmony in the camp.

[youngirish]

Whelan's a decent Championship player but he's not good enough to make a mark in the Premiership and consequently International football imo. I think we'll struggle against decent opposition with him in midfield.

Hopefully Joey O'Brien, Darron Gibson or Owen Garvan become more attractive alternatives for the defensive midfield role within the early stages of the campaign.

He's a better option than Miller or Carsley though.

[Razors left peg]

I thought Whelan was very good last night

[Stuttgart88]

I haven't seen enough of Delaney to ascertain whether he's good in the air. Is he?I can't say either, but he played regularly at CB for Hull as far as I know, so I'd imagine he's no slouch in that department.

[Stuttgart88]

I thought Whelan was very good last nightI agree with this and almost every word of your initial match assessment earlier in this thread (wouldn't quite have gone as far as "over the moon"). It was refreshingly pleasing to see a pattern and purpose to our play, at least an attempt to play conventional football. It was as if they'd been made to watch and study Euro 2008.

[irishultra]

I agree with this and almost every word of your initial match assessment earlier in this thread (wouldn't quite have gone as far as "over the moon"). It was refreshingly pleasing to see a pattern and purpose to our play, at least an attempt to play conventional football. It was as if they'd been made to watch and study Euro 2008.

Nail on the head.

[Stuttgart88]

With regard to Whelan, he's not that much different to Mark Kinsella who thrived alongside Keane. He's the kind of player that doesn't figure that much in English football anymore, an old fashioned central midfielder who just keeps the ball moving and has a good - but at times careless - range of passing.

I like him but prefer Andy Reid. I don't see my prediction from 3 years ago that he's a future Ireland captain coming true, but I expect we'll see more of him.

I'd be curious to see how he and Delap, and Lawrence of course, cope this year.

[geysir]

I didn't realise that Stoke are in the EPL now.
How did that happen?

That should bring Lawrence and Delap more into the limelight.

[irishultra]

Doesn't Whelan play for them?

[geysir]

He does but at least he has the eye of Trap whereas the other 2 have dropped out of the squad altogether.

[Wheels]

I like the look of the sytem... 4-2-3-1 / 4-4-2. We had lots of good movement off the ball.

I'm still confused by Andy's absence. This season Sunderland are using the same 4-2-3-1 and Andy is pivotal as one of the 2 holding midfielders. He works hard and does a good defensive job, but (when the time is right) he can spread the ball and open up the game.

Personally, I think that is even more important in a tough away fixture. We are likely to be pinned back for long periods and a long precise pass from deep can allow our 4 fast attacking players to grab vital counter-attack goals. This is especially true against better teams who are likely to throw more players forward.

We saw what precise long passing can do to open up teams whenever we played Russia and Switzerland in recent years, they tore us apart with them.

[eirebhoy]

Thinks thats a stupid mark to give Whealan. I thought he played very well, particularly in the second half in the horrible conditions. He goes through a lo of the donkey work that often never gets appreciated. I was very impressed with his partnership with Reid and think it has good potential for the future. Plus it adds much needed bite to our midfield
I was hoping that would bet ignored. :( That rating would not change no matter what performance Whelan put in. Don't bite.

[Kingdom]

With regard to Whelan, he's not that much different to Mark Kinsella who thrived alongside Keane. He's the kind of player that doesn't figure that much in English football anymore, an old fashioned central midfielder who just keeps the ball moving and has a good - but at times careless - range of passing.

I like him but prefer Andy Reid. I don't see my prediction from 3 years ago that he's a future Ireland captain coming true, but I expect we'll see more of him.

I'd be curious to see how he and Delap, and Lawrence of course, cope this year.


Stutts I love you. I couldn't put my finger on who he reminded of. Kinsella. Thats him in a nutshell. Now for Steven reid to morph into a level headed Roy Keane and we're set!

[eirebhoy]

I think Trap hinted in his interviews that he wants a more defensively solid midfield away from home and gainst the better teams at home, but we'd use more attacking options against the lesser teams at home.
If three of your midfield are Duff, McGeady and A Reid, that doesn't give a lot of cover at the back.
I haven't seen too much of David Dunn in recent years but I wouldn't put him down as a player who's great defensively. It was Dunn and Reid in midfield for Blackburn for the 2nd half of last season with 2 attacking wide players in Bentley and Pedersen. I think Reid-Reid is fine defensively. Positional sense is a lot more important than the ability to tackle.

[DotTV]

I haven't seen too much of David Dunn in recent years but I wouldn't put him down as a player who's great defensively. It was Dunn and Reid in midfield for Blackburn for the 2nd half of last season with 2 attacking wide players in Bentley and Pedersen. I think Reid-Reid is fine defensively. Positional sense is a lot more important than the ability to tackle.

You might think so, and I'd tend to agree, but Trap is known for keeping things tight.

[geysir]

Trap seems to think that in this system that Whelan / Reid is better defensivly than Reid/ Reid. Basically he appears to be fixed on having "wingers" on both sides and a solid middle.
The worrying thing is that in S Reids absence he would go for Miller, if reports were to be believed. I don't understand that one. Maybe he has seen something that we haven't.

[Torn-Ado]

Not long back from Oslo. ****ing rain, dire match and to top it off, I missed Keanes goal because I was having a slash. Good oul craic though.

[seanfhear]

Jack Charlton certainly made Ireland hard to beat(his first priority).After 6 years with little or no sucess we may have to accept a more pragmatic approach.We have been giving up late goals(goals generally) too easily.This is like having a soft underbelly which opposition teams know that they can exploit if they persevere.If we want sucess we may have to except a no frills style of play.Mind you I am not convinced that 0`Shea will make a secure centre back with the amount of game time he gets in that position.St ledger or Delaney might be worth a go but that will probably down to circumstances at this stage.

[Condex]

Aiden McGeady - 8 - Slowly starting to settle and looked very comfortable tonight making a lot of very good runs and link ups.


What are you on you blethering idiot:rolleyes:, McGeady was absolute crap,
did nothing right the whole game...

[Stuttgart88]

The worrying thing is that in S Reids absence he would go for Miller, if reports were to be believed. I don't understand that one. Ageed, that's the really strange & very worrying one.

I hope by hook or by crook we get off to a good start. A lot of the season will have passed before the spring games and the likes of Garvan, Gibson, O'Brien may have progressed sufficiently to overtake Miller. I suppose for a competitive game there's always Carsley and my long shot for a cap this campaign is Delap, who I've long felt has the attributes to provide cover at CB if required, and as far as I can recall, has played full back on both sides.

Kingdom, calm down mate :)

[tetsujin1979]

What are you on you blethering idiot:rolleyes:, McGeady was absolute crap,
did nothing right the whole game...
He had a shot from the left corner of the penalty area that whistled just wide, and crossed for Doyle from the right wing. He didn't have a bad game, certainly no worse than Duff.

[eirebhoy]

Ageed, that's the really strange & very worrying one.
Trap also mentioned Potter in his list of central midfielders. I just think he doesn't see Reid as a central midfielder at all. He's also not a typical wide player so the only chance of him playing is in a 4-5-1 unless he proves himself there with Sunderland.

/looks like it's being covered in the other thread...

[irishultra]

Anyone have an idea when the next squad will be named?

I guess its just a formality really, unless Mooney scores 10 next week.