Gardai draws up hitlist of football thugs

[Neil]

From the Sunday Times



Gardai draws up hitlist of football thugs
Scott Millar

GARDAI are responding to a recent surge in British-style football hooliganism in Ireland by drawing up a dossier with soccer authorities on the most notorious troublemakers.
Several League of Ireland football clubs are helping to compile files on violent fans, using footage from closed- circuit television (CCTV) cameras. Thirty suspects have already been identified by three football clubs in Dublin.

The clubs have said they will ban anyone involved in football violence.

Gardai are also increasing their policing and surveillance at games. Detectives have travelled to Britain in recent months to study security at football stadiums there. They have also consulted the UK’s National Criminal Intelligence Service, which has a unit dedicated to gathering intelligence on football violence. Video surveillance cameras will now be used outside the larger club matches in the capital.

One league club official estimated that up to 50 fans could be involved in orchestrating violence at one club alone. At least one of those identified in the clubs’ dossier is known for violence associated with Glasgow Celtic games in Scotland, where he has been convicted of football-related crime. It is hoped that the new information will enable preventive action to be taken against those involved.

Attendance at league games averages less than 2,000, but in recent weeks arrests and violent incidents have soared. The violence has mainly involved three Dublin clubs — Shamrock Rovers, Bohemians and St Patrick’s Athletic — along with Dundalk and Cork City. Shamrock Rovers, one of Ireland’s most successful clubs, were last week expelled from their temporary stadium at Richmond Park because of the violence.

One garda who polices Eircom League matches said the force and football associations are acting before the violence gets out of hand. “The image of Irish soccer is one of a game played in a good atmosphere— something we want to maintain,” he said. “Measures are being put in place on a national basis to deal with problems that have emerged with some people who attend games.”

The most serious incident was an attack on Bohemians supporters following a fixture with Shamrock Rovers on September 1. Rovers admitted last week that the club had “a serious problem with a small number of our supporters”.

Alan Duncan, secretary of the club, said: “Two weeks ago all of our energies were channelled into the building of our new stadium. Now we are looking for some place to play and at how we, in conjunction with the gardai, are going to get rid of these mindless people who have attached themselves to the club.

“The whole league has to look at this issue and ask itself, ‘Is this something which is creeping into football that was not here before?’ We must act to stamp it out and this may even necessitate legislative change.”

Increasing security costs have also strained club finances. The Bohemians board even considered banning away fans from their next game with Shamrock Rovers, the first time such a move has been considered in the republic.

The club has installed a CCTV system to monitor fans’ activity and has banned four of them for three years.

An Eircom League security committee last week heard that organised violent casual gangs are associated with two of the league’s clubs. These groups have even set up confrontations by mobile phone and the internet. The casual gangs, so-called because their members wear designer-label clothes and not the clubs’ colours, are an imitation of similar gangs associated with clubs in Britain.

Eric Dunning, a sociologist at University College Dublin, said: “Soccer violence is something which is mainly associated with working-class young men. Recent years have seen growing use of the internet to propagate it.”

One Bohemians fan, who admits that he has been involved in organised clashes, said: “Violence at games mainly involves casuals. People are identified by wearing expensive designer clothes and stay apart from other fans. The age of these guys is anything from mid-teens to mid-thirties. This season it’s obvious that it’s gone too far and innocent people have been injured.

“Most lads are now asking themselves if it’s possible to still have the buzz at the games but without any violence.”

[tiktok]

Originally posted by Neil
The violence has mainly involved three Dublin clubs — Shamrock Rovers, Bohemians and St Patrick’s Athletic — along with Dundalk and Cork City.

am i way off the mark here, but do Pat's have that element to their support? i know they have a few idiot kids who posture and gesture in front of away fans, but to me that seemed to be the extent of it, as far as i was aware, they were more the victims of the 'alledged' trouble in the EL enclosure at the Ireland -v- turkey game.

[soccerc]

Originally posted by tiktok
am i way off the mark here, but do Pat's have that element to their support? i know they have a few idiot kids who posture and gesture in front of away fans, but to me that seemed to be the extent of it, as far as i was aware, they were more the victims of the 'alledged' trouble in the EL enclosure at the Ireland -v- turkey game.

There are no organised trouble makers involved at St Pats and I find Scott Millars article totally implausible. (His knowledge of casual culture at soccer games may have coloured his judgement).

Secondly there was no trouble alleged or otherwise in the North Terrace for the ireland V Turkey game

[tiktok]

Originally posted by soccerc
There are no organised trouble makers involved at St Pats.....

I'm glad you've confirmed that for me soccerc, i'm sure Dodge and Nightdub will have something to say about Millar's article, which seems a little irresponsible to me.


Originally posted by soccerc
Secondly there was no trouble alleged or otherwise in the North Terrace for the ireland V Turkey game

I did say 'alleged' because i only heard it from one source, who told me a Pat's fan was set upon by two supporters of another EL club, if there's no truth in this, i apologise, I certainly don't want to add fuel to the "EL thuggery" fire.

[A face]

In the article ... it listed threee Dublin clubs and Dundalk and City. Where are they getting their information from, there have been a few incidents which by and large have not gone down too well within the support for CCFC, but there is no way you could even remotely describe any of the support for City as a "firm" ........... Nothing like it exists at City and i am suprised that they'd even mention us. Obviously they have no been down here very much, because if they had, they would see a completely different picture.

[soccerc]

Originally posted by A face
In the article ... it listed threee Dublin clubs and Dundalk and City. Where are they getting their information from, there have been a few incidents which by and large have not gone down too well within the support for CCFC, but there is no way you could even remotely describe any of the support for City as a "firm" ........... Nothing like it exists at City and i am suprised that they'd even mention us. Obviously they have no been down here very much, because if they had, they would see a completely different picture.

One needs to ask who is Scott Millar.

There is one link between all five clubs mentioned and it's not Shamrock Rovers. What clubs fans were involved in alleged incidents involving the other four?

[Ultan]

By all accounts there's a similar article in today's Oirish Sun. Not the best of researched pieces, I've no idea why he felt the need to drag yourselves and Pats into it.

[curts82]

I've never heard of or seen any arrest of City fans ever.

It does happen at Pats.
I've been to Inichore twice and those 2 times I've been attacked and they tried to start a fight at the 1st game this season.

[joeSoap]

I know I'm a little bit thick, but can anyone explain to me what 'casuals' and 'ultras' are in terms of supporters.:confused: :confused:

[Dodge]

Originally posted by curts82
I've never heard of or seen any arrest of City fans ever.

It does happen at Pats.
I've been to Inichore twice and those 2 times I've been attacked and they tried to start a fight at the 1st game this season.
Would you ever **** off. There's a HUGE difference between organised crowd voilence and little ****ing knackers. I've been spit on in Turner's cross, Drogheda and Sligo. I wouldn't call them hooligans. Muppet

"Casuals" are football fans who wear expensive casual designer clothes (The unimaginative Bohs/Rovers lot wear Stone Island sweaters and Burberry caps/polo shirts as standerd) The "Casuals" point is to be involved with voilence. "Casuals" arrange fights with casuals of other clubs away from the football and theoritically no innocent bystanders get hurt.

"Ultras" in the term used here by SRFC Ultras are involved in increasing noise and colour and games. "Ultras" are not neccesarily involved in voilence (i.e. some maybe but not because they are an Ultra, just because they are a bit thick)

In continental Europe, Ultras are generally involved in voilence. Not all but most.

In Ireland the "tifo" scene (another name for Ultras) is growing with most clubs' fans buying flags, drums, banners etc.

There are only two casual mobs in Ireland, Bohs and Rovers

[pete]

Eric Dunning, a sociologist at University College Dublin, said: “Soccer violence is something which is mainly associated with working-class young men. Recent years have seen growing use of the internet to propagate it.”

:rolleyes:

Football Holliganism in the 21st century 101

Poor article with no sunstance, just full of bland statements.

[niamh]

Whatever about the article, such a list is a move in the right direction IMO.
AFAIK City fans have been arrested in the past, but i would hardly consider any of them hooligans.

[pete]

Originally posted by niamh
AFAIK City fans have been arrested in the past, but i would hardly consider any of them hooligans.

While i'm not going to condone either any violence at eL matches there is a big difference between organised violence & spur of the moment melees.

I'd be amazed if the gardai could find as much as 50 "hooligans". Theres one thing knowing a certain number were involved in an incident than identifying them.

[Peadar]

Originally posted by joeSoap
can anyone explain to me what 'casuals' and 'ultras' are

Casuals are "fans" who don't wear colours, ie football shirts.
You see them at games in England with shaved heads, burburry baseball caps, stone island jackets and that sort of stuff. They arrange fights with opposition fans before the games.

Ultras are supposed to be ultimate supporters. Creating flags and banners. Basically being organised. The difference between Ultras and Casuals it that the Ultras wear scarfs and club colours. The Ultras typically wouldn't go out looking for a fight.

[hoofball]

The Irish Mirror had a story yesterday along the same lines, although they did put a paragraph between mentioning the three dublin teams and City. They said something like "and two other clubs have seen an increase in violence recently - Dundalk and Cork City". That sentence implied worse than what was meant, i.e. there was always violence it's just on the increase now.....

Deffo not the kind of publicity (false/made up or otherwise) that we need....

[Chips]

As regards the Gardai setting up a list of known hooligans I think it is about time it was done. Most of the regular people who are involved in the violence and attempted violence are more than likely on file already in one way or another.

By bringing them all under the one banner it will enable the Gardai to moniter these people and stamp out the threat of violence at games.

While I do admit there is an increase in the threat of violence at games I think the media have blown it out of all proportion. Many of the arrests at games in recent years have been for public order related offences, ie. being drunk and acting the maggot, very few if any have been for violence

[Éanna]

I don't know how city got mentioned in this. There has not been hassle at the cross. As for away games, one or two people may have reacted to provocation but thats it. City should sue over this.

[d13bohs]

"An Eircom League security committee last week heard that organised violent casual gangs are associated with two of the league’s clubs."

If you read the article I dont think it says that pats, cork or dundalkkk have casual gangs, it just says that fans of theirs have been involved in fights (which none of you have denied). The article is a load of ******, pure hype to cash in on the current el-bashing trend. As for soccerc's comments

i) re scott millar, you are putting 2 and 2 together and getting about 75, he has had no links with any el club for about 7 years and he is a waffler

ii) there was trouble at the Ireland game, both on the north terrace and in pubs in town, check out the srfcultras board and the bohs board if you want to verify it, they havent denied it

[soccerc]

Originally posted by d13bohs
[Bi) re scott millar, you are putting 2 and 2 together and getting about 75, he has had no links with any el club for about 7 years and he is a waffler

ii) there was trouble at the Ireland game, both on the north terrace and in pubs in town, check out the srfcultras board and the bohs board if you want to verify it, they havent denied it [/B]
I find your comments strange considering you said you read the article - maybe perhaps you should also read what I posted again.

Firstly, Did I say Scott Millar had a current affiliation with any el club? No

Can I now ask you did he? and if so what club?

Secondly, Were you on the North Terrace on the night Ireland played Turkey? Did you see any form of trouble? NO why? because there was NO TROUBLE at the Ireland V Turkey game on the North Terrace.

Finally there is no point even going to the two other MBs you mentioned as I'll find nothing there to confirm your claims.

[pete]

Originally posted by d13bohs
re scott millar, you are putting 2 and 2 together and getting about 75, he has had no links with any el club for about 7 years...

So could be said he a former Bohs holligan then.

[Macy]

In my experience, not all Casuals are hoolies, and in Europe many Ultras are hoolies dressed up in full regalia... It's all too easy to label (no pun intended) people on how there dress, what they wave at the match etc etc... hoolies are hoolies, no matter what they do or don't wear...

Soccerc - surely not, they're way to far up the moral high ground to be on the same planet as any other clubs fans....

[soccerc]

Originally posted by Macy
Soccerc - surely not, they're way to far up the moral high ground to be on the same planet as any other clubs fans....

Macy

what can I say except.................CLASSIC.........:D

[WeAreRovers]

Since the answers aren't forthcoming I'll ask again.

1) Is Scott Millar a Bohs fan?

1) Did Scott Millar help to set up the BSC?

3) Did Scott Millar "run" with the BSC?

4) Is the Sunday Times a Brit rag with MI5/MI6 links? (a bit like Bohs. :) )

Answers on a Bohs membership card or a BSC flag to the usual address.

KOH

[d13bohs]

1) He went to a few games in the early 90's, he hadn't been at a game in years til he turned up in Richmond Park

2) No

3) No, as Macy says, people who wear labels are not neccesarily hooligans

4) Yes (like your RUC links WAR:D )

soccerc, re the Ireland game, I misread in my semi-drunken state yesterday, I thought you were talking about the Russia game where rovers fans threw a beer bottle onto the pitch, attacked a Bohs and a Pats fan on the way out and attacked more Bohs fans in a pub afterwards

[pete]

Originally posted by d13bohs
1) He went to a few games in the early 90's, he hadn't been at a game in years til he turned up in Richmond Park...

Bit of a coincidence there trouble at apparently his first game back. Wonder did he have anything to dow ith opening the gates early....hmmmmm.....

[thecorner]

a lot of the people wear casuals going to games anyway coz most go to town afterwards for beer and niteclubs

so u cant go labelling them hooligans

[d13bohs]

exactly, as thecorner said, lots of people wear nice clothes, we were in Cork last night, if we were wearing jerseys we woudn't have got in anywhere, so what if I wear Lacoste or Stone Island rather than St Bernard, didn't think it was a crime

[thecorner]

Originally posted by d13bohs
exactly, as thecorner said, lots of people wear nice clothes, we were in Cork last night, if we were wearing jerseys we woudn't have got in anywhere, so what if I wear Lacoste or Stone Island rather than St Bernard, didn't think it was a crime

where did ye go

[Counting Crow]

Probably the Arcadia.......:D

It's in the same condition now as most of their Clubs and Bars now!

[Eric]

Originally posted by WeAreRovers
Since the answers aren't forthcoming I'll ask again.

1) Is Scott Millar a Bohs fan?

1) Did Scott Millar help to set up the BSC?

3) Did Scott Millar "run" with the BSC?

4) Is the Sunday Times a Brit rag with MI5/MI6 links? (a bit like Bohs. :) )

Answers on a Bohs membership card or a BSC flag to the usual address.

KOH

Am I wrong or does 2 normally come after 1??????:D

[d13bohs]

Originally posted by thecorner
where did ye go

Don't know the name of the place, we walked back towards the city centre til we crossed the first bridge, took the next left and it was the first pub on the right. Didn't look like a very big pub until we went in past the bar at the front, it opened out into a huge bar with a VIP :rolleyes: area at the back and there was some sort of club/nightclub upstairs.

Met 2 lovely Cork girls there who brought me back to some flat for a few smokes and a few more drinks ;)

[pete]

Originally posted by d13bohs
Don't know the name of the place, we walked back towards the city centre til we crossed the first bridge, took the next left and it was the first pub on the right. Didn't look like a very big pub until we went in past the bar at the front, it opened out into a huge bar with a VIP :rolleyes: area at the back and there was some sort of club/nightclub upstairs.

Did ye walk in past the city hall (similar to dub Custom House)

Scotts? Old Oak?

[d13bohs]

Have a vague recollection of passing it, yeah :D

I'm afraid I was very, very drunk :D